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Thread: Color of Ansco/PF 130

  1. #11
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    Re: Color of Ansco/PF 130

    I wonder if there is a simple test .. like the binary test to see if xtol has died or regular print developer is dead ( putting a scrap of film or paper in it with the lights on to
    see if it reacts and how fast ) with glycin ( or metal or HQ &c to know how well the raw components are working... simpler the better because the more complex the test the easier it is
    to screw it up ( or at least that is true for me ) ...
    enjoy your coffee

  2. #12

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    Re: Color of Ansco/PF 130

    Quote Originally Posted by jnantz View Post
    I wonder if there is a simple test .. like the binary test to see if xtol has died or regular print developer is dead ( putting a scrap of film or paper in it with the lights on to
    see if it reacts and how fast ) with glycin ( or metal or HQ &c to know how well the raw components are working... simpler the better because the more complex the test the easier it is
    to screw it up ( or at least that is true for me ) ...
    As long as you know your paper doesn't have any developer incorporated in the emulsion, then you can test to see if a developer is dead.

    Testing for the activity level of specific developer components is a lot less straight forward - particularly when more than two developing agents are present (as is the case in Ansco 130), because if the metol and HQ are fine you'll get basically the same results whether the glycin is dead or alive.

  3. #13
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Color of Ansco/PF 130

    I don't know who Don Cardwell was, but it was him foisting a myth. Glycin-based 130 is my most commonly used developer, and I have a pretty darn good idea at this point of how its behavior does indeed shift with progressive oxidation. Plenty of other highly experienced darkroom workers have noticed the same thing too, not to mention the folks who make the stuff to begin with. But some people seem perfectly content to confuse dirty dishwater for the next evenings bowl of soup.

  4. #14

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    Re: Color of Ansco/PF 130

    Quote Originally Posted by jnantz View Post
    I wonder if there is a simple test .. like the binary test to see if xtol has died or regular print developer is dead ( putting a scrap of film or paper in it with the lights on to
    see if it reacts and how fast ) with glycin ( or metal or HQ &c to know how well the raw components are working... simpler the better because the more complex the test the easier it is
    to screw it up ( or at least that is true for me ) ...
    come on man, that sounds way too easy and will never work, total wast of time, Maybe I need to buy an expensive lens to take a test shot with. (sarcasm). Waiting on a shipment of paper so can try this weekend.
    Adventure is worthwhile in itself. ... Never interrupt someone doing what you said couldn't be done. -- Amelia Earhart
    http://www.searing.photography

  5. #15

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    Re: Color of Ansco/PF 130

    Ansco 130 will 'work' (it will develop paper) with old, off-color Glycin but it will stain the paper; it is immediately apparent in the white borders of the print.

    Over the past few years I've used Ansco 130 (purchased from the Formulary). As others have stated, the Glycin changes color as it gets old. It keeps well in the freezer. Once mixed, the developer has a very long life in the container (air sucked out).

  6. #16
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    Re: Color of Ansco/PF 130

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    I don't know who Don Cardwell was, but it was him foisting a myth. Glycin-based 130 is my most commonly used developer, and I have a pretty darn good idea at this point of how its behavior does indeed shift with progressive oxidation. Plenty of other highly experienced darkroom workers have noticed the same thing too, not to mention the folks who make the stuff to begin with. But some people seem perfectly content to confuse dirty dishwater for the next evenings bowl of soup.
    He never foisted any myth about anything. He had been known to know a great deal about many photographic subjects and post examples of his work along with information he spoke about. He wasn't the type of person with a heavy opinion, and who threw insults towards people he didn't know or was acquainted with, and ..he'd post examples of work when they spoke about various subjects. Its too bad you have to insult people claiming they are foisting myths and spreading BS...
    Quote Originally Posted by esearing View Post
    come on man, that sounds way too easy and will never work, total wast of time, Maybe I need to buy an expensive lens to take a test shot with. (sarcasm). Waiting on a shipment of paper so can try this weekend.
    good luck ! 130 is one of my favorite developers, if you need a Schneider xxl triple I might have one for you to borrow but it only works on a huge ebony..
    enjoy your coffee

  7. #17

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    Re: Color of Ansco/PF 130

    Well, 130 contains a healthy amount of other developing agents also, so if (when) the glycin is exhausted, it should still develop (differently) with the glycin inert in its coffee like color...

    Steve K

  8. #18
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Color of Ansco/PF 130

    BS is BS. There are obviously things that guy didn't know, and by deliberately using the term"myth", he was putting himself in the position of having the term boomerang right back at him, if that's what he actually said. Plenty of people know the actual aging characteristics of glycin, not just me. But he evidently wasn't one of them, again, if he actually ever stated that.

    And as per glycin hypothetically "still working" after it's highly discolored - well, the problem is that it learns to do something additional - stain the paper overall. If you like that soaked in tea look, fine. I don't. It obscures too much tonality, even if you can tolerate the brown. But it was fun learning those boundaries or parameters, even if the handful of resultant prints instantly went to the reject stack.

  9. #19

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    Re: Color of Ansco/PF 130

    Update: I finally got the enlarger fixed and had some free time this morning . The dark PF 130 performed as usual with no apparent staining. Mixed it 0.5Liter PF130 + 1 Liter of water. Ran through about 8 sheets of 11x14 and it was still going strong.
    Adventure is worthwhile in itself. ... Never interrupt someone doing what you said couldn't be done. -- Amelia Earhart
    http://www.searing.photography

  10. #20
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Color of Ansco/PF 130

    "As usual" doesn't say much. You'd have to make comparisons with actual fresh glycin and along the way down the road at intervals, using the same paper. There will be a tipping point when its unusable. In other words, if you want it to last, the powder should fresh (off white or barely tan) when you buy it. If you start out with brownish, it's already partially oxidized and has less of a useful lifespan left on it.

    You're using it at 1:2 dilution, which is fine. I prefer 1:3. Starting with 500ml of formula (1/2 liter), I could easily do not only eight 11X14's, but eight 16X20's. It's rather stable and efficient, though I discard developer at the end of the day.

    As far as image staining goes, there are two different ways this is talked about when it comes to 130. The first manner is the gentle nuance of "glow" obtained in highlights in the print due to glycin, which subtly shifts toward warmer as the glycin ages. The other kind of stain is overall, when even the borders of the print get discolored due to excessively old glycin. When glycin powder is really old, it looks almost black.

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