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Thread: 24 inch Red Dot Artars: Brass vs Aluminum?

  1. #1

    24 inch Red Dot Artars: Brass vs Aluminum?

    Thanks to all who helped refine my thinking on "long" process lenses, but it seems as if in LR, one question begets another.

    Specifically, I'm trying to get a handle on how common RDA's with aluminum barrels are--certainly less common than the bog standard brass I'm sure, but if they are the proverbial "unobtainium," (or else fetch a premium approaching what I'd spend on a Fuji C 600) I'll just stick the Bronze Age beastie in my bag and go a little slower up the hill.

    And another question (see what I mean?) can I infer that some/most RDA's won't have the right filter ring pitch to allow the use of modern screw-in filters?

  2. #2

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    Re: 24 inch Red Dot Artars: Brass vs Aluminum?

    I have Alum 19" (2 of them), brass 24", alum 30", brass 35". Just get one. You can always upgrade later on if it bothers you. All in Copal 3's except the 35" is in an Ilex 5. When you get SKG to mount the lens, you can get him to put a standard threads adaptor up front.
    Last edited by Luis-F-S; 18-May-2021 at 09:11.

  3. #3

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    Re: 24 inch Red Dot Artars: Brass vs Aluminum?

    IMO, no optical advantage with the overly coveted Fujinon 600mm C in this case. The larger image circle of the 600mm C is more of a dis-advantage than advantage due the stray light from the over-sized image circle bouncing off the sides of the bellows on to the film resulting in overall contrast reduction of the film image.

    IMO, get something for now be it a 24" RDA or 610mm f9 APO nikkor or similar for now to see if this lens on camera works for you.

    As for threaded on filters for lenses like this, don't bother with any conventional threaded on in front of these lenses. None of that will work. Get a Sinar pivoting filter holder with a holder for 75mm or 100mm square or Sinar 103mm round filters or 105mm round thread in or use the behind the shutter filter holder.

    This adventure is no longer in the standard LF lens world, this is a much non-standard LF world of optics. The other might be held belief, lightweight with this optical adventure will not mix well. Camera support and all must be considered.



    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by CreationBear View Post
    Thanks to all who helped refine my thinking on "long" process lenses, but it seems as if in LR, one question begets another.

    Specifically, I'm trying to get a handle on how common RDA's with aluminum barrels are--certainly less common than the bog standard brass I'm sure, but if they are the proverbial "unobtainium," (or else fetch a premium approaching what I'd spend on a Fuji C 600) I'll just stick the Bronze Age beastie in my bag and go a little slower up the hill.

    And another question (see what I mean?) can I infer that some/most RDA's won't have the right filter ring pitch to allow the use of modern screw-in filters?

  4. #4

    Re: 24 inch Red Dot Artars: Brass vs Aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luis-F-S View Post
    Just get one.
    I like the way you think. Given the form factor is a lot smaller than the APO-Nikkors I was considering, I'm not going to sweat an extra pound or so.

  5. #5

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    Re: 24 inch Red Dot Artars: Brass vs Aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by CreationBear View Post
    Specifically, I'm trying to get a handle on how common RDA's with aluminum barrels are--certainly less common than the bog standard brass I'm sure...
    Aluminum RDA's are typically above 83xxxx serial #'s Brass RDA's start at 779612 in October 1953 according to ex Goerz tech, Eddie Bolsetzian. The only difference I am aware between the RD and non-RD's is that the RDA's are single coated whereas the plain Apo A's are not. There may be differences in the coating with very late RDA's say above 84xxxx because they certainly look different (more bluish).

  6. #6

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    Re: 24 inch Red Dot Artars: Brass vs Aluminum?

    Brass RD 24” here; I had SK Grimes cut standard 67mm filter threads into the front cell. Couldn’t be happier. Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #7

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    Re: 24 inch Red Dot Artars: Brass vs Aluminum?

    Plain APO-Artars are often coated. Having used, encountered and been around LOTs of both plain Artars and Red Dot Artars. Single coated is plenty good for this lens design.

    What has been more variable, their optical performance. Some are astonishing, some are absolute duds most likely due to abuse-damage in their past. This is why the try before buy is so important. A good Artar example is diffraction limited at f16 / f22. This means being able to clearly read the car license plate from a urban scene where the size of the car is about 1/8" of an inch or less on the sheet of film when examined with a good microscope.

    RDA marketing began about serial# 78x... based on experience. This is consistent with the 779612 in October 1953 note.
    Lens coating technology was available before 1953.

    Much the same applies to Dagors with Gold Rim, Gold Dot and all that marketing..

    All these vintage lenses are subject to vast variation which is why lots of testing is an absolute need and requirement along with the right to return.
    The good ones are special and definitely keepers.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by Luis-F-S View Post
    Aluminum RDA's are typically above 83xxxx serial #'s Brass RDA's start at 779612 in October 1953 according to ex Goerz tech, Eddie Bolsetzian. The only difference I am aware between the RD and non-RD's is that the RDA's are single coated whereas the plain Apo A's are not. There may be differences in the coating with very late RDA's say above 84xxxx because they certainly look different (more bluish).

  8. #8

    Re: 24 inch Red Dot Artars: Brass vs Aluminum?

    Thanks very much Luis and Bernice--important information and good advice. I will have to learn to speed up my LF throughput before testing, though...

  9. #9

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    Re: 24 inch Red Dot Artars: Brass vs Aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    the overly coveted Fujinon 600mm C
    Another lens to consider is a 600mm f/11 KangRinpoche in a Copal 3. Educated guess and probably from what I read is that it is a copy of the 600mm Fujinon. Maybe a member of the FORUM has both and can confirm this or not? I'm not going to call it a ripoff because the front of the lens reads KangRinpoche and not Fujinon. I found and acquired one in new condition for a third of the price of a used Fujinon. I use it on my 11x14 and love it. So far it has never failed to cover the 11x14 with a generous rise of the front standard.

  10. #10
    (Shrek)
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    Re: 24 inch Red Dot Artars: Brass vs Aluminum?

    No love for the Al-barrelled LOMO O-2 600mm f10 Dialyt process lens that can currently be purchased on fleabay for just over US$200 (I think I bought mine for $60)?

    Edit: my apologies, it looks like brass to me in the photos, mine is aluminum (I think, I'd have to find it). Looks like a pretty close copy of the Artar.

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