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Thread: A few advise before I dive !

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2021
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    Paris - France
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    Re: A few advise before I dive !

    Benjamin,

    I try to do my homework before asking out :-) Yes the tax thing can be scary (after all, I'm in France :-) ) And yes, I think the lens is worth the price asked by the dealer.

    However, Corran and Lenicolas have an interesting alternative point of view. I would sum things up this way :

    - One older, heavier, nice lens (in good condition) with a shutter not as reknown as copals, at a fair price, from a local store I already used once (to buy 4x5 chassis for my pinhole camera). The lens is already picked up by the seller but I do not have an alternative. I have a long warranty on the lens, but I need to decide quickly.
    - One younger, lighter, nice lens (in probably good condition too) with a most reknown shutter with a final price probably not that different if choosen wisely from an internet store (but with added complexity). I have tons of lenses to choose from. I can find as much good ones as there are bad ones. And I don't know the seller yet. I have shorter warranties but I have time to choose.

    This is a tough decision :-)

    Thank you all for your time and expérience !

    Daniel

  2. #12

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    Apr 2021
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    Paris - France
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    Re: A few advise before I dive !

    Alan,

    I had a phone call with the seller. He did test the shutter and provides a new battery with it. This only is a spoken word, but the question was asked and answered :-)

    Daniel

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    558

    Re: A few advise before I dive !

    One question would be why would someone want to use an electronic shutter instead of a standard spring shutter? Must be some advantage to it.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    SooooCal/LA USA
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    2,802

    Re: A few advise before I dive !

    What I think everyone here is trying to explain here is the electronic shutters were uncommon, and IF this shutter has any issues now or in the future, there is almost no one that can service this for you, so you will be stuck alone with it...
    And no service parts are available for them...

    Another issue is that with a odd battery type, some do not respond well in cold or damp conditions, and you might not use the lens for awhile, and when needed might not be ready to shoot normally... And batteries can leak over time requiring service...

    Normal serviced spring shutters can work for decades well, but a battery shutter is taking a chance... If it came with a camera, or cost little or nothing, or was on a special lens or size ok, but for a common lens at retail price, don't buy it...

    Electronic shutters seemed like a good idea at the time, but didn't catch on...

    Steve K

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,901

    Re: A few advise before I dive !

    Planning on a lightweight field folder then marry that with a whopper lens?

    Not good for a long list of reasons.

    While electronic shutters can be accurate, consistent and more. They are more problems than solutions and they add bulk for your needs.

    Given the Intrepid will have limited camera movements using a 90mm lens, lightweight and not the most stable-rigid-precise view camera, the larger image circle and size-bulk of any f5.6 or f4.5, 90mm wide angle lens would not be a good choice. Adding to the disadvantages would be the electronic shutter.

    IMO, better to get a 90mm f8 in a proven reliable/accurate Copal or similar fully mechanical shutter. This would fit your image making need and lightweight field folder camera better than any f5.6 or f4.5, 90mm wide angle lens.

    Any 90mm f8 wide angle from Schneider, Rodenstock (90mm f6.8 grandagon), Fujinon, Nikkor in a modern copal shutter would be ideal. Optical performance wise, they are all equal enough to be regarded as much similar than different. Don't rush into a lens purchase as there should be plenty of these on the market, don't spend too much on a 90mm f8 as there are plenty of them on the market, right of return should be part of the pre-purchase deal. If the lens is a dud optically or mechanically, is needs to be returned to the seller for a refund.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by danielha View Post
    Hi folks,

    I'm on my way to dive into 4x5 photography. I'll buy an Intrepid camera as it is light weight and inexpensive. So I won't hesitate to carry it in a back pack and go shooting outside (landscape / cityscape). I plan to first buy a wide angle lens and found a 90mm f5.6 Super Angulon mounted on a Compur 1 electronic shutter.

    What else should I check before I buy the lens ?


    Many thanks for your help,
    Daniel

  6. #16

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    Apr 2021
    Location
    Paris - France
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    Re: A few advise before I dive !

    LabRat,

    It doesn't take too much brain cells to understand that "electronic" shutters are uncommon :-) This was the first one I saw after spending countless hours trying to figure out if I should dive into LF photography or not. So I know there are some risks choosing this lens for this reason. Risk is inevitable buying lenses and shutters decades old. It is "a little" bigger when the part is uncommon. I do agree with you.

    The question of the battery doesn't seem to be a big concern after carefull thinking. The original battery can be replaced with a more recent one which is easily available and probably more stable over time than the original ones. And if I remember correctly the specs I've read last week (the shutter works from 3V to 6V), a USB battery delivers enough volts to make the shutter work ! I'm used to carry 3 batteries for my Olympus E-M1, a USB battery and a charger for the Olympus (a french saying : "Belt, strap and an umbrella") ! Nothing new there.

    I understand your caution words ! I do.

    Many thanks for your input !

    Daniel

  7. #17
    Benjamin's Avatar
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    Feb 2021
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec
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    71

    Re: A few advise before I dive !

    Daniel, seems to me you're getting more than one red flag, and from quite a few experts.

    After reading them, I would amend my earlier statement to say that you might have a lot of problems reselling it if you realize it doesn't suit your needs.

    As I said, I understand the tax element. But I do think it's preferable to pay a little more to get what's good for you than take a chance with something that will cost less but that you'll be desperate to get rid of in a couple of months. The warranty is probably for broken parts, not for "I don't like it after all".

    My feeling is that lens won't sell any time soon. I'd take that chance. Once you get your camera, if you still want it, ask for a money-back tryout, if possible.

    If you can't get that, or if the lens is sold, you'll have no problem finding a good 90mm lens with a standard shutter.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Paris - France
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    Re: A few advise before I dive !

    Benjamin,

    You're right about the number of red flags ! And you're right about the warranty. It's for broken parts, not for a change of heart !

    It did seem to be a good opportunity :-) It might not be...

    Thank you all for your kind advise.

    Daniel

  9. #19

    Re: A few advise before I dive !

    We have taxes in France but it's not...uncommon
    It's not a red flag. From Japan you add 20% for VAT + import fees (via the carrier) 25-30€ : you are in known field, not an issue

    nobody but you can chose between an electronic ou classic shuttter but the former is rare, unkown from most, the latter reliable in the end

    you had good experts opinion here : you can always ask french large format photographers on http://www.galerie-photo.info/ if you want more points of view

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,901

    Re: A few advise before I dive !

    Schneider serial# 11580010 dates this 90mm f5.6 Super Angulon to about 1970, making this lens and shutter about 50 years old. To believe or think an electronic shutter of that age will function perfectly is extremely unrealistic.
    https://ground-glass.net/schneider-lenses-age/

    Much the same applies to a mechanical shutter.


    Be aware the battery is a PX21, which is not so common.
    Read this page on Compur shutters before acting on any lens in Compur shutter:
    https://skgrimes.com/products/shutters/compur-shutters/

    "The latest version of the Synchro Compur began production in the early 1970’s and is still in limited production. It has a new design torsion type mainspring and was originally available in sizes #00, #0, #1 and #3. Here, I show the #1 in the largely unsuccessful battery timed “electronic” version. Most of the electronic versions don’t work. Battery vendors for the PX 21 can be found via a Google search."


    Bernice

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