Best dual axis bubble spirit?

[Drew Wiley]

I trust domestic Klein pliers, but anything cheap and electronic like that they unquestionably outsource. A real Starrett level or the equivalent should be in every shop, if for no other reason than to verify the accuracy of your lesser levels before trusting them; similarly with squares. But I still assert that when it comes to cheap, a basic pendulum angle finder beats most levels any day of the week;
and it doesn't need a battery. As far as programmable levels that beep at you when level, I personally reviewed prototypes of the very first ones on the market several decades ago, so can't be accused of being unfamiliar with the principle. Do I own one of those myself? - heck no! One more decade and leveling lasers did the same thing much better. But then in turn, lots of those got outsourced and junkified too.

[Bob Salomon]

I trust domestic Klein pliers, but anything cheap and electronic like that they unquestionably outsource. A real Starrett level or the equivalent should be in every shop, if for no other reason than to verify the accuracy of your lesser levels before trusting them; similarly with squares. But I still assert that when it comes to cheap, a basic pendulum angle finder beats most levels any day of the week;
and it doesn't need a battery. As far as programmable levels that beep at you when level, I personally reviewed prototypes of the very first ones on the market several decades ago, so can't be accused of being unfamiliar with the principle. Do I own one of those myself? - heck no! One more decade and leveling lasers did the same thing much better. But then in turn, lots of those got outsourced and junkified too.

Was was on a factory trip to our suppliers in Germany after I got my first iPhone. In the Kaiser factory I happened to be standing next to one of their granite work tables in their prototype shop so I used it to check the level function in the iPhone. Surprisingly it was dead accurate!

[Drew Wiley]

Working for a Starrett dealer nearly fifty years ago, we were given a demonstration of an electronic meter that measured in millionths. They took a pink granite machinist's surface reference block (their own, the best and most stable you could buy), and even the temperature change of you breathing on it would create a dimension change registered by that meter. Before the time I retired at another Starrett account, that kind device had evolved into something that would draw a contour map of your surface in millionths. But that was certainly not something that could be lugged around as a salesman's sample; it also cost over a million dollars.

[Drew Wiley]

Bingo! Just an hour after chatting about this, an Amazon ad for a small digital angle finder pops up in my e-mail. Ain't it nice to have internet privacy? (speaking facetiously).

[grat]

I've switched to a browser called 'brave', which is based on Google Chrome, but minus all the Google bits. It also places an emphasis on privacy, so I haven't had that happen to me in awhile. You probably don't care about "brave rewards".

[Tin Can]

Yep, iPhone is a very good level

and meter

I never call anyone

damn good camera too

I use the latest SE2, new $200

and always in my cig pocket

I don’t smoke

Was was on a factory trip to our suppliers in Germany after I got my first iPhone. In the Kaiser factory I happened to be standing next to one of their granite work tables in their prototype shop so I used it to check the level function in the iPhone. Surprisingly it was dead accurate!

[Drew Bedo]

I had heard that using a smart phone was not a reliable light meter.

What model phone and which app?

[John Earley]

I trust domestic Klein pliers, but anything cheap and electronic like that they unquestionably outsource. A real Starrett level or the equivalent should be in every shop, if for no other reason than to verify the accuracy of your lesser levels before trusting them; similarly with squares. But I still assert that when it comes to cheap, a basic pendulum angle finder beats most levels any day of the week;
and it doesn't need a battery. As far as programmable levels that beep at you when level, I personally reviewed prototypes of the very first ones on the market several decades ago, so can't be accused of being unfamiliar with the principle. Do I own one of those myself? - heck no! One more decade and leveling lasers did the same thing much better. But then in turn, lots of those got outsourced and junkified too.

If a level isn't regularly tested and certified as accurate to a standard how would you know they are better than some of the "lesser levels".

[Bill Poole]

"My Lightmeter Pro" ap for iPhone is my go-to lightmeter, Drew. Works for me as average, spot, and incident. I checked it with other meters for a while. and almost it always agreed. I only do that now in very iffy situations.

[Drew Wiley]

John - the real deal levels are certified, with the certification note right in the box, just like lots of the US made Starrett precision equipment. Each piece is tested against a factory standard. They make more than precision equipment, so that's not the case with one of their own label common carpenter's square or holesaw or hacksaw blades etc. But it is routine with the pricey items. Some kinds of levels are re-adjustable, but others fixed, and basically unalterable unless the machined housing itself corrodes to the degree that it is not longer perfectly flat. That can happen. For instance, I once sold a person a custom especially long precision Starrett straightedge, accurate along the whole length to about .0002 inch. He waited six months for delivery, but didn't pay attention to the instructions, and then just stuffed it unboxed in a closet in this salt air climate. He didn't realize that the kind of steel involved requires routine oiling to prevent rust. When he took it out a few months later, that $800 straightedge was no more accurate than a $10 one because the edge was pitted. But for a nominal fee, he sent it back and they re-machined the critical edge, and had to wait a few months more in order to have it on hand.

That was back when I was selling mainly to machinists and mechanics. Much later, at a different business, I was dealing with very high-end ($$$$) cabinet shops and custom furniture makers. The Starrett tools they used comprised many of the same model numbers as back when Starrett first began in the latter part of the 19th C - combination squares, wing dividers, etc. But things were so well machined and standardized all along that someone could come in with a combination square head made in 1905, and I could order a blade made a 110 years later, and it would fit perfectly. Happened rather frequently in fact. The only real difference is that a modern blade has a satin chrome finish, easier to read, plus metric options if one wishes. I keep both metric and inch blades on hand. Another thing one notices is that once you tighten the knob to a Starrett combination square, everything ends up perfectly square every time. That simply doesn't happen with ordinary hardware store combination squares; you have to check each time if the application is critical.

Remember, generations of machinists have relied on the reputation of companies like Starrett and Brown & Sharpe, Mitutoyo, etc. It isn't like what one encounters in Cheapo Depot where tens of thousands or even millions of a particular tool item gets outsources, shipped, and marketed without even a single one of them ever being tested, not even the prototype. Happens all the time in those kinds of venues. Whole different ballgame. Just like I hinted in the preceding paragraph, the serious level models in question have are time tested for at least a hundred years. If you find a clean one in your grandfather's toolbox, it will probably be just as precise today. Otherwise, there are ways of testing.

The same outfit I last worked for, and served as buyer for in a number of categories, was also by far the largest Stabila level dealer in the country. No, not machinist quality, but certainly a cut above most other options. Even the bubble position black markings were physical and inside the vial, rather than painted or a decal outside it. There was a distinct reason for that, even though it required a certain amount of fussy hand-tuning every instance. Lifetime warranties were involved; but there were always a certain number of dummies who mistook a level for a crowbar, so each complaint had to go through a distinct inspection protocol before replacement. Some of their models were readjustable, others permanently fixed in epoxy and especially stable box extrusions, with one true machined edge. Basically, you get what you pay for. The Chinese can clone the look of darn near anything, but not the quality.