Horseman 985 infinity stop skrews stuck

[landstrykere]

I have spent one hour with this...
i bought a Topcor Super 65mm f7 the other day in order to use with a 985 bought a week before.
Of course I read extensively before buying, and I opted for the newer type of Super 65mm, the one recessed so it allows some movement, the ones on black boards, meant for the Horseman VH-R matching infinity stops but the Horseman I have, the 985, has infinity stops set for the previous version of the lens, non-recessed. I took a couple shots indoors, tripod, focusing with RF and on GG, there's a difference, focusing rail had to be adjusted between the two, and on the result pictures, the one taken with GG is sharper. By pointing at some distant roof edge and using a millimetric printed ruler by the edge of the focusing bed I estimated I should move the infinity stops 1mm ahead.

Good! let's take the screwdriver and test this.
Easy, trivial, but ... the damn skrews don˝t move <--here many profanities untranslatable about the son of bad life lady who tightened the skrew like the bolts of a lorry wheel -->

these two for the green stop on the left side. The ones on the right side stop came smoothly, but these two are damn stuck:





I used a syringe for a drip of penetrating oil, waited, tried carefully, waited more, tried harder, then took a small hammer, a foam under the bed and hammered reasonably the slot on the skrewhead in order to deepen it a bit and so offer better grip to the skrewdriver. Nothing. It's stuck. Put another drop of "unlocking" oil, waited a bit, tried again but I just caused some wear.
Next step would be a tiny drill, find some wider skrews as replacement, but I am in no mood for this.
Or, grind the inner edge (the one closer to the body) but then it's irreversible...

will take some shots of architecture, near and close and landscapes to see how it goes, but I guess if I can't unskrew this stop, I may have to buy the older type of Super 65mm for handheld RF use.

Btw, I tested the lens with the 4x5 increasing back. It's usable but focusing must be done by pushing the lens by hand inside the body, outside the rails. So yes doable, yet no so convenient.

[Tin Can]

Try lacquer thinner

after that pin point very tiny gas torch

some experts glued them in

Not sure if your has a pointy screw tip, but that can also make it very hard to reset near last expert settings

and lastly what range of infinity are you using

sometimes it is good to wait and think about the design and actual purpose

[landstrykere]

Try lacquer thinner

after that pin point very tiny gas torch

some experts glued them in

Not sure if your has a pointy screw tip, but that can also make it very hard to reset near last expert settings

and lastly what range of infinity are you using

sometimes it is good to wait and think about the design and actual purpose

ah! glued in skrews and lacquer thinner. I didn't think of it. Thanks. Will apply acetone I have here.

Skrews are pointy and marks under them. I have put also a mark by the rail. The other stop which comes off easily:



the lens is the recessed, newer one that came with the VH-R. VH-R manual https://www.cameramanuals.org/prof_p...seman_vh-r.pdf , page 11, note 4:
"the VH-R's infinity stops (C3) are adjusted to infinity according to the current specifications, and so when coupling with the rangefinder, it is necessary either to replace the old lens board with one that conforms to current specifications, or to readjust the infinity stops"


what i have is the other way around: a new lens board with an older camera (the 985), ðerefor same effect: infinity stop must be adjusted.

anyway I took a shot at close-range. Tripod, these two pictures are consecutive on the roll (there was a change in lighting between them because sun changing from a couple windows and a door opened casting a shadows). It's Fomapan-400 developed in Fomadon Excel and scanned on Epson V700:

focused with the RF:



focused with the GG, I had to adjust the bed, and the picture is indeed sharper:




compared detail RF vs GG:




I can attach only four picture by post, so I tell about infinity in the next one

[landstrykere]

so how I evaluate infinity adjustment....

I pick sharp edges on a building more than 30 meters away. Use a paper printed millimetric ruler with magic tape on the edge under the focusing bed like this:



I focus on the RF, then on the GG, and measure the difference on the ruler. In this case it was ~1mm.
So the idea is to move the infinity stops accordingly and test with a couple pictures.

what I need is the damn skrews to come off...

[Tin Can]

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.phot...V6H2NQUc?pli=1

[ic-racer]

Look for a lens with the lensboard for your camera.

[landstrykere]

Look for a lens with the lensboard for your camera.

the point is that the non-recessed 65mm doesn't allow movements... Of course movements mean GG focusing, and in that case, one or the other lens is the same.
But my idea with this Horseman is to use it mostly handheld with RF, and some GG focusing on the tripod, something like 80% to 90% of the time with RF. The recessed 65mm I have would be ideal: movements and RF once the stops are adjusted....

-------------

by the way, about stuck skrews: I did check the focusing unit and adjusted the RF for the normal lens that came with the camera. I had to see anyway how is the RF. So remove the top. It's hold by four skrews. Two came off nicely. Two were totally stuck and wearing out while I tried to remove then. This camera is a solid metallic frame, so I took a hammer in order to do a clean deeper slot on the skrews heads, in one reasonably dosed yet strong knock. It's tricky, you never know how soft/hard the skrews are, risk to split and destroy the head:






when I was done with the RF and set the top back, I used copper paste that I use for the bolts when changing wheels on the car, which I will do this week btw, from studded tyres to summer wheels...



the focusing unit is simple and robust and very easy to adjust the RF, no need to remove the top, there's a small hole on the front, covered with a black skrew to access the horizontal adjustement, and infinity is done from the back of the camera.
Yet in case more adjustment or repair of other parts of the focusing unit must be done there are couple other skrews that can be stubborn.
Also it was good I removed the top for inspection, because it did reset the parallax correction arm/spring. I hadn't noticed the camera had parallax correction before that.

In short: the camera is very simple, it's not about small complex clockwork, intricate gears, springs, levers and clutches. No the only possible problem can be stuck skrews ...

I guess I will create a thread with details, pictures and a small video i took for my records, about the RF mechanism.

[Tin Can]

I look forward to your video!

[landstrykere]

I look forward to your video!

oh it's just a minute long. it shows the RF spring movement from the main lever inside the camera connected down to the cam lever, lever adjusting the 2nd mirror, and the spring moving the parallalax adjustment frame. I took it as a note for myself.
overview of the RF unit, very simple:



But yes tomorrow or so when I'll have few minutes, I will post a thread.

In general I find these cameras are not well documented (online). They are all basically the same since the first Horseman Press is. 760, but with enough variations between them. For instance about the RF unit, there's the site of Jo Lommen for the VH-R:
https://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/Horseman/index.html

but the 985 i have is a bit different. Infinity adjustment is elsewhere and involves two skrews, and as said before, horizontal RF adjustment is trivial by removing a skrew in the front, no need to remove the top:



anyway yes I will post a dedicated thread.

[Tin Can]

Short videos are best

Yes, Topcon and Horseman are hard to research

but so is any other camera

Photography is very secretive

and many lie