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Thread: Photographing stars, 4x5

  1. #11
    Huub
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    Re: Photographing stars, 4x5

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Young View Post
    One of the laws of astronomy that you will not find in a textbook is that the arrival of new equipment will bring with it a week of cloudy skies.
    Ain't that a derivative of Murphies law?

  2. #12

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    Re: Photographing stars, 4x5

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Young View Post
    One of the laws of astronomy that you will not find in a textbook is that the arrival of new equipment will bring with it a week of cloudy skies.
    hahaha yup. on an astro group I know, someone always posts a question on their forum asking who just got a scope cuz the clear sky charts are solid white lol
    notch codes ? I only use one film...

  3. #13
    William Whitaker's Avatar
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    Re: Photographing stars, 4x5

    Try YouTube. You will find more information there on this subject than you have time to watch.

  4. #14
    Lachlan 717
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    Re: Photographing stars, 4x5

    This is going to be a rabbit hole if you choose to pursue it.

    It is NOT as simple as putting the camera on an Equatorial mount and press the shutter release. You need a way to polar align the rig.

    The longer the lens, the more accurate you’ll need to be.

    Yes, these come with a PA scope; however, this will not be accurate enough. They work okay for ultra wide angle lenses on digital as you can smash up the gain on the sensor and take a heap of short (300 seconds or less) images that are then stacked in a dedicated programme to reduce signal noise.

    But, that’s not what you do in LF Astro. You shoot single images. You shoot low sensitivity emulsions that suffer both reciprocity failure and colour shift. You loose light through filtration (which, unless you’re in very low Bortle skies, you will need).

    So, you will need a Polar align system and a tracking system. Both will cost money and will require electric input (computer, iPad etc.)

    This is NOT a pont’n’shoot pursuit....
    Lachlan.

    You miss 100% of the shots you never take. -- Wayne Gretzky

  5. #15
    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Re: Photographing stars, 4x5

    OP, check out the Cloudy Nights forum for info on other gear that you’ll need to make it happen, aside from the camera itself.


    You’re gonna love that EQ6, Corran

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corran View Post
    I currently have a SkyWatcher EQ6-R on order, arriving tomorrow hopefully but sky forecast looks cloudy until late next week.

    Will be experimenting with full-size 4x5 cameras on the mount, as well as piggybacking on a Celestron C8 I will be remounting onto it as well.

    Eyepiece projection will probably not happen for me. I don't think it's worthwhile - I know others disagree. First usage on 4x5 will probably be DSO with Linhof MT and 250mm Sonnar (heavy!).
    This is Provia 100F 4x5 shot through a Bausch & Lamb 24” f/6.3 aerial reconnaissance lens. The lens is mounted to a steel tube with a 4x5 back hacked onto it and mounted to a Losmandy dovetail for attaching to my telescope mount.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
    https://www.pictoriographica.com

  6. #16
    Corran's Avatar
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    Re: Photographing stars, 4x5

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodda Duma View Post
    This is Provia 100F 4x5 shot through a Bausch & Lamb 24Ē f/6.3 aerial reconnaissance lens. The lens is mounted to a steel tube with a 4x5 back hacked onto it and mounted to a Losmandy dovetail for attaching to my telescope mount.
    Nice! I actually have the elements for that same lens, no barrel, that I've been meaning to try mounting up and putting in front of a camera somehow. Also a 20" f/5.6 B&L as well sitting here from some estate sale in barrel - a tele lens that might be easier to use. Lots to play with.

    I tried registering at Cloudy Nights some time ago and got all kinds of weird errors and problems with their forum. Not sure what's up with that.
    Bryan | Blog | YouTube | Instagram | Portfolio
    All comments and thoughtful critique welcome

  7. #17
    umop apsidn
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    Re: Photographing stars, 4x5

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachlan 717 View Post
    This is going to be a rabbit hole if you choose to pursue it.

    It is NOT as simple as putting the camera on an Equatorial mount and press the shutter release. You need a way to polar align the rig.

    The longer the lens, the more accurate youíll need to be.

    Yes, these come with a PA scope; however, this will not be accurate enough. They work okay for ultra wide angle lenses on digital as you can smash up the gain on the sensor and take a heap of short (300 seconds or less) images that are then stacked in a dedicated programme to reduce signal noise.

    But, thatís not what you do in LF Astro. You shoot single images. You shoot low sensitivity emulsions that suffer both reciprocity failure and colour shift. You loose light through filtration (which, unless youíre in very low Bortle skies, you will need).

    So, you will need a Polar align system and a tracking system. Both will cost money and will require electric input (computer, iPad etc.)

    This is NOT a pontíníshoot pursuit....
    Actually, the built in polar scopes can work just fine. I've been using a not much more than a equatorial mount, its polar scope, a modest little guide scope and a reticle eyepiece to utilize my 4x5 on the night sky for about fifteen years. I vastly prefer its simplicity and ease of use over the alternatives. You don't need a permanent pier, drift alignment, goto, laptops, pads, phones, autoguiders...

    I'm posting a couple of negatives I made with little more than just that. These are on Tech Pan, and exposed recently. A nice little equatorial for tracking, polar alignment using nothing more than the built-in scope. Manual guiding. That was it. Rho Ophiuchi was done with a 300mm lens. About a twenty minute exposure. The close-up view shows how the tracking performed. The second is Orion. 180mm lens, similar exposure time, and a closeup. No alignment or tracking issues.

    A bigger issue will be finding a mount that even has a polar scope anymore. I had to search hard to find a mount that still offered and used one. Most all new equatorial mounts rely on software fixes for alignment now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rho.jpg   Rho-Detail.jpg   Orion.jpg   Orion-Detail.jpg  

  8. #18
    Lachlan 717
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    Re: Photographing stars, 4x5

    20 minute subs with reticule alignment. Sorry; I don’t believe that is possible.

    A 5 minute sub with tracking is tough enough with digital wide field, let alone 20 minutes unguided.
    Lachlan.

    You miss 100% of the shots you never take. -- Wayne Gretzky

  9. #19
    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Re: Photographing stars, 4x5

    konakoa, if you can’t find a new mount with a polar scope, then you didn’t do an internet search. All the equatorial mounts on the market above “department store” level include them. Software doesn’t correct polar misalignment errors after the image is captured.

    The harder part is finding them in stock... amateur astronomy has seen a huge increase in interest due to COVID driving people to find things to do at home.

    Lachlan, 15+ years ago I was manually guiding 1-3 hour film shots by hand viewing through a reticled eyepiece. That was needed to correct tracking errors. This was at a very narrow FOV (1800mm focal length). When I piggybacked a camera for wide FOV shots, I didn’t need to make guiding corrections for that hour...the mount was smooth enough. For wide field shots you can get away with a barndoor tracker.

    konakoa is talking about polar alignment when setting up, a different topic.


    Btw, attached is a dry plate shot from a couple weeks ago, 1hr exposure, replicating a famous 1881 (iirc) dry plate photograph
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 66454FC0-DC37-4BBD-AF7A-6EA2D3B2363C.jpg  
    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
    https://www.pictoriographica.com

  10. #20

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    Re: Photographing stars, 4x5

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodda Duma View Post
    konakoa, if you canít find a new mount with a polar scope, then you didnít do an internet search. All the equatorial mounts on the market above ďdepartment storeĒ level include them. Software doesnít correct polar misalignment errors after the image is captured.

    The harder part is finding them in stock... amateur astronomy has seen a huge increase in interest due to COVID driving people to find things to do at home.

    Lachlan, 15+ years ago I was manually guiding 1-3 hour film shots by hand viewing through a reticled eyepiece. That was needed to correct tracking errors. This was at a very narrow FOV (1800mm focal length). When I piggybacked a camera for wide FOV shots, I didnít need to make guiding corrections for that hour...the mount was smooth enough. For wide field shots you can get away with a barndoor tracker.

    konakoa is talking about polar alignment when setting up, a different topic.


    Btw, attached is a dry plate shot from a couple weeks ago, 1hr exposure, replicating a famous 1881 (iirc) dry plate photograph
    Whoa, stunning photograph ! Wonder how bad colour shift would be if it was colour film (vs filters)
    notch codes ? I only use one film...

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