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Thread: Camera / tripod brace for vibration

  1. #11

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    Re: Camera / tripod brace for vibration

    Single point of camera coupling does not work ok for long camera set ups. Add to this problem, the flexi tripod head, center column tends the enhance instability lots.

    Delete the tripod center column if possible, mount a robust means of support direct to the camera if possible. Sinar pan-tilt, Majestic head or cine half bowl to the tripod. These tend to be far more stable than the common flimsy multi position tripod head with a center column that goes up-down. Balance the camera on it's support if possible. Once the camera position needed for image composition and lighting needed has been established, add another support direct to the front of the camera like a extra tripod, monopod or telescopic pivoting-adjustable extension from the tripod's front leg. This will stabilize the camera and help prevent and damp possible camera movements and vibrations.

    If this is a timed exposure, consider extending the exposure times to allow the film to effectively average the image exposure reducing the effects of short time camera and set up movements. This is one of the techniques microscope folks used in the microscope to film image days. Still used with digital imagers to this day and it works.

    Using a strobe lighting can also reduce the effects of camera movement.

    Longer the camera and bellows extension, more severe this problem becomes and difficult to control.

    Bernice

  2. #12

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    Re: Camera / tripod brace for vibration

    I fought this problem for a long time. Hook a carabiner to the center column and hang your overfilled, overweight camera bag to it. Problem solved, as I carry an extra kitchen sink in my camera bag.

  3. #13

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    Re: Camera / tripod brace for vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Opheim View Post
    . . . My Calumet C-1 is the worst - and heaviest - its also 34 inched long when fully extended.
    How about the Green Monster Calumet, magnesium model? Compared to the black C1, it's quite a bit lighter. I have one in my possession that belongs to a friend, and it weighs less than 13 lbs.

    I think that weight is key. Regardless of tripod strength, physics prevails and moment arm vibration becomes extremely difficult to avoid.

  4. #14

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    Re: Camera / tripod brace for vibration

    I have been using a Boge/Manfrotto 359 with clamps at both ends. One end attaching to a leg and the other to the front of my 11x14 Chamonix. I just make sure not to "stress" the front end of the camera. When traveling light, I use a large "movers" rubber band securing it with Gaffers tape instead of the 359. I just make sure that the rubber band is not stressing the front of the camera. Works kind of in between having nothing and using the 359. In most cases the rubber band works fine in getting rid of any vibration. Three main lenses for the 11x14 are in ILEX No. 5 Universal shutters. The older ILEX has the ILEX logo above the front of the lens, and the newer ILEX has the logo under the front of the lens. Once extended the bellows out there and attached a laser pointer to the front of the camera. With one older ILEX the I saw movement of the laser's light projected on the wall about 20 feet away. With the other older ILEX and the newer ILEX there was no discernible movement. Older 2 ILEX shutters are not exactly the same. Of the two older ILEX shutters, the older one exhibited movement of the laser light's projection. Older No 5 Betax and newer Copal 3's produced no movement of the pointer when fired. Sinar/Copal shutter sounds off like a Guillotine when fired, but no movement. Using a dark slide in front of the lens produced the most amount of movement of the pointer, but that had to be 100% my fault as a result of my technique. FYI, all the tests were done at 1/8 second except for when I used the dark slide.
    Comments most welcome...

  5. #15
    William Whitaker's Avatar
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    Re: Camera / tripod brace for vibration

    Robert,

    Several years ago I made a "tray" to support my Folmer & Schwing 12x20 on a tripod as I feel the front extension is not robust enough on its own. This essentially amounts to a 3/4" hardwood (mahogany, IIRC) board sized to fit the width (and length) of the extension rail. Side rails insure that the extension remains aligned with the support. There are other details specific to that camera, but that is the general idea. It works very well in spite of being yet something else to keep with the kit.
    I have detailed it a couple of times already on this forum and won't go into it again just to save forum bandwidth.
    If you have any questions, you're welcome to PM or email me and I'll be happy to share the details.
    Good luck!

  6. #16

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    Re: Camera / tripod brace for vibration

    Precisely it.

    Adding more than one point of camera-lens support does lots better than a single "Massive" tripod. This game is much about how the rig is supported not just weight-mass alone.

    Big shutters can produce big vibrations. Ilex# 5 shutters or Compound# 5 shutters can rock the entire camera (excite it's self resonance) if not addressed and considered what they can do. Once the camera rig is long enough there are wave effects with it's self resonance. Think string vibrating, or why adding more than one point of support tends to break up these self-resonates and possible wave propagations along the length of the camera rig.

    Matters not how or what is used to achieve this, what is important is knowing what needs to be done, then figuring out a way-method to achieve it.

    Sinar shutter does make a big whack during it's shutter cycle. Holding down the shutter release cable for the entire shutter cycle reduces the closing whack significantly. The shutter is designed to balance out the open-closing forces to prevent camera movement. While this shutter can sound disturbing and loud during it's shutter cycle, it does not produce much camera vibration.

    The other big shutter that does this surprisingly well, big packard shutters and electronic Ilex# 5. Quite certain there are other big shutters that have been designed to minimize vibrations during their shutter cycle.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    I have been using a Boge/Manfrotto 359 with clamps at both ends. One end attaching to a leg and the other to the front of my 11x14 Chamonix. I just make sure not to "stress" the front end of the camera. When traveling light, I use a large "movers" rubber band securing it with Gaffers tape instead of the 359. I just make sure that the rubber band is not stressing the front of the camera. Works kind of in between having nothing and using the 359. In most cases the rubber band works fine in getting rid of any vibration. Three main lenses for the 11x14 are in ILEX No. 5 Universal shutters. The older ILEX has the ILEX logo above the front of the lens, and the newer ILEX has the logo under the front of the lens. Once extended the bellows out there and attached a laser pointer to the front of the camera. With one older ILEX the I saw movement of the laser's light projected on the wall about 20 feet away. With the other older ILEX and the newer ILEX there was no discernible movement. Older 2 ILEX shutters are not exactly the same. Of the two older ILEX shutters, the older one exhibited movement of the laser light's projection. Older No 5 Betax and newer Copal 3's produced no movement of the pointer when fired. Sinar/Copal shutter sounds off like a Guillotine when fired, but no movement. Using a dark slide in front of the lens produced the most amount of movement of the pointer, but that had to be 100% my fault as a result of my technique. FYI, all the tests were done at 1/8 second except for when I used the dark slide.
    Comments most welcome...

  7. #17

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    Re: Camera / tripod brace for vibration

    Robert,

    Yes its rock solid. The handle at the joint essentially compresses everything together super tight. Release it and it's very loose. The handle is a little hard to turn but you get used to it. To use it I assemble it loose, tighten the two clamps (one on the camera and one on the tripod leg) and then turn the handle to lock it all down. Super simple and very effective.

    -Joshua

  8. #18

    Re: Camera / tripod brace for vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Opheim View Post
    Daniel - your solution to camera vibration is similar to what Edward Weston used on his 8x10. I think that the Sinar Norma 8x10 is one of the most robust cameras. My issue is the connection between the camera and the tripod. It looks like you are using a Ries tripod?
    That's a Manfrotto tripod on my 8x10 Norma
    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
    ― Mark Twain

  9. #19

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    Re: Camera / tripod brace for vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    Once the camera rig is long enough there are wave effects with it's self resonance.
    In the late 1970s we were shooting about a dozen 4x5 Kodaliths of hand drawn graphs each day. As the number of graphs to shoot each day increased, we decided to switch to shooting 70mm Kodalith. Reel processing of 70mm film versus using 4x5 film hangers drastically cut down the processing times. Motorized 70mm film back was an easy acquisition. But when we switched to shooting 70mm film, the Polaroid Copal shutter with its Tominon lens just didn't cut it. We were using a Polaroid MP-4. Focusing was done with the front standard being attached to 2 round rods which were moved up and down through the main camera's body to focus the lens. The 2 rods acted like a tuning fork that resonated when the shutter was released. Mind you precision machining of the MP4 wasn't one of its attributes. We switched to using a Compur? Electronic shutter and a 12cm f/4.5 Leitz Summar. The Summar gave us sharp images and the electronic shutter eliminated the vibration and resonating problem. Plus the super accurate repeatable shutter speeds of the electronic shutter were a match for getting exacting exposures on the Kodalith film. On my Nikon Multiphot, the shutter is mounted behind the lens using 4 (I believe) soft rubber columns on each side of the shutter. When the shutter is fired you can actually see it move but the small rubber columns completely absorb the movement/vibration.
    Last edited by Greg; 2-Mar-2021 at 15:45. Reason: grammer correction

  10. #20
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    Re: Camera / tripod brace for vibration

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Dunn View Post
    Robert,

    Yes its rock solid. The handle at the joint essentially compresses everything together super tight. Release it and it's very loose. The handle is a little hard to turn but you get used to it. To use it I assemble it loose, tighten the two clamps (one on the camera and one on the tripod leg) and then turn the handle to lock it all down. Super simple and very effective.

    -Joshua
    Joshua, thanks for this. I've got the Bogen/Manfrotto tripod with the finger "trigger" for adjusting height of the legs--together or singly-- which I love for studio. BUT, even though I don't raise Norma via the center column, it can be a little less than rock solid. Not in studio now but when I return, I'm trying out your Super-Magic solution!

    The elegance is the single large knob at the Magic Arm elbow for one-touch adjustment.

    Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

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