Discolored white borders on prints

[Ben Calwell]

This is strange. Considering Ben's stated throughput, as long as temperature is ok and there is agitation during fixing, 1 minute in Ilford Rapid Fix 1+4 should be fine, so I'm puzzled.

I wonder if Perma Wash could be a factor somehow. Perma Wash is not exactly a hypo clearing agent, so it might be a variable to consider.

Thanks -- I'm puzzled, too. I just checked my jar of mixed (1:4) Ilford Rapid Fix that I've been using for several darkroom sessions with a strip of unexposed film, and it cleared in 1 minute, but with a magenta tint. As per Doremus's advice, tomorrow I'm going to print with a batch of fresh as a daisy fixer and see if the staining occurs again.
If the staining keeps reoccurring, perhaps I'll just give up on selenium toning. But I do like the effect it gives to prints.
As I mentioned earlier, I would have never noticed the staining had I not accidentally held a print up to light so that it's backlit. Viewed under normal lighting, the staining is invisible.

[Ben Calwell]

I've also been in contact via email with Ilford support. I sent them photos of the mysterious gray specks on the backs of some prints, as well as images of the staining. The gray specks tend to disappear when the print has dried. But when held up to light, you can see how the light comes through where the now-invisible specks were. Weird, I know. The gray specks don't show up on every print -- just some of them.

[Doremus Scudder]

Doremus,
Thank you — I really appreciate it.
So my problem is more likely to be inadequate fixing, ie, weak or exhausted fixer. And this, therefore, causes the print to stain when toned in selenium?
Or inadequate washing, or both?

Yes. You won't know which till you test.

I’m not a prolific printer, only doing a few 8x10s during a typical darkroom session. Based on your advice, then, if I want to stick with a single-bath fix, I need to really limit the bath to no more than 10 8x10s. And 1 minute ( per Ilford’s instructions) should be okay, if I don’t exceed that 10-print limit?

Yes, if you want to fix to Ilford's standard for optimum permanence. As I mentioned, Ilford also gives a standard for "commercial" use; the capacity for a liter of fixer at that standard is 40 8x10s.

Fixing more than 10 prints per liter may not make a difference in toning. You'll have to test... Personally, I like my prints to be fixed really well, so I just don't skimp on the fix, discarding it at well before capacity and using two-bath fixation. Still, for a low-volume situation such as yours, a one-bath regime will work fine as long as you don't exceed capacity. Certainly, the first few prints through fresh fixer are well fixed, so test those and see if you get stains. If so, it's not the fixer.

You can test the 1+4 dilution at one minute maximum fixing time, as Ilford recommends, also. Fix a print for one minute, fix another for longer and see if it makes any difference (you'll have to wash the second print longer).

I’ve been using Hypo Check for a long time, blissfully thinking if it didn’t turn cloudy, then the fix was good.
After toning, I use Heico Perma-wash for five minutes, followed by the wash cycle in an 11x14 tray, shuffling, dumping, etc. if I had a slot-type print washer, it would make life easier. ...

As mentioned, Hypo-Check just isn't up to the task of testing fixers for paper where optimum permanence is the goal. The allowable amount of dissolved silver in such a fixer is too low, even after capacity has been exceeded, for the Hypo-Check test to detect. Using throughput as a guide and then testing for residual silver on the prints themselves with Kodak ST-1 or the Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner test is much more accurate.

FWIW, since you have selenium toner around, here's how to test for residual silver with that:

Mix a test solution of KRST at 1+9 (or stronger; I often just use a drop of the concentrate; results are the same).
1. Place a drop of the test solution on the border of the (well-washed) print to be tested (or in the center of a piece of paper with no image on it that you've fixed and washed)
2. Leave the drop there for three minutes, then rinse.
3. Any stain other than a very faint cream color indicates inadequate fixation.

Your Perma Wash may be the problem too, see below. I've never trusted the stuff. Again, a test with regular HCA or just a sodium sulfite solution in place of the Perma Wash for a print or two to see if there's any difference would be in order. My recipe for wash aid: 1 Tbsp. sodium sulfite and a pinch of sodium bisulfite (or metabisulfite) per liter.

This is strange. Considering Ben's stated throughput, as long as temperature is ok and there is agitation during fixing, 1 minute in Ilford Rapid Fix 1+4 should be fine, so I'm puzzled.

I wonder if Perma Wash could be a factor somehow. Perma Wash is not exactly a hypo clearing agent, so it might be a variable to consider.

Michael,
I'm curious how you arrive at the 30-second fixing time that you mention... Ilford recommends one minute. I really don't see how 30 seconds, even in a "film-strength" fixer will do the job...

Best,

Doremus

[Ben Calwell]

Thanks again, Doremus. I'm going to try the KRST test on a print and see what happens.

[Michael R]

Michael,
I'm curious how you arrive at the 30-second fixing time that you mention... Ilford recommends one minute. I really don't see how 30 seconds, even in a "film-strength" fixer will do the job...

Best,

Doremus

Hi Doremus,

I think it was LabRat who mentioned a 30 second fix time. I’ve always followed Ilford’s instructions and done 1 minute.

If I remember correctly, when Ilford was doing this research they found 30 seconds was actually enough, but that reducing the fixing time from 1 minute to 30 seconds did not reduce wash times substantially further. Given these diminishing marginal returns regarding wash efficiency, it therefore made more sense to recommend the longer fixing time, which effectively includes a “safety factor” against underfixing.

[tundra]

Most typically, this is caused by insufficient wash after fix. After you fix for 1 min in the Ilford rapid fixer, wash for 5 minutes, THEN Permawash, THEN tone, then do a final wash - I do it in a low rate eco washer for 60 min.

(if you use tongs, marks can also be cause by dirty tong tips.)

[Ben Calwell]

Most typically, this is caused by insufficient wash after fix. After you fix for 1 min in the Ilford rapid fixer, wash for 5 minutes, THEN Permawash, THEN tone, then do a final wash - I do it in a low rate eco washer for 60 min.

(if you use tongs, marks can also be cause by dirty tong tips.)

Thanks — I do the 5 minute wash after fix, but then I go into the toner. After toning, I rinse them again for 5 to 10 minutes and then Perma Wash, followed by washing in a tray with running water, shuffling, dumping and losing my mind at the tedium.

[Doremus Scudder]

Hi Doremus,

I think it was LabRat who mentioned a 30 second fix time. I’ve always followed Ilford’s instructions and done 1 minute.

If I remember correctly, when Ilford was doing this research they found 30 seconds was actually enough, but that reducing the fixing time from 1 minute to 30 seconds did not reduce wash times substantially further. Given these diminishing marginal returns regarding wash efficiency, it therefore made more sense to recommend the longer fixing time, which effectively includes a “safety factor” against underfixing.

Michael,

Thanks for answering anyway Sorry I confused you with LabRat. Actually, I quoted the wrong post and didn't read it, just looked at the name; I meant to quote LabRat.

Best,

Doremus

[Doremus Scudder]

Thanks — I do the 5 minute wash after fix, but then I go into the toner. After toning, I rinse them again for 5 to 10 minutes and then Perma Wash, followed by washing in a tray with running water, shuffling, dumping and losing my mind at the tedium.

Ben,

The consensus seems to be either no wash before the toner, i.e., transfer directly from fix to toner, or wash thoroughly before toning, i.e., probably more than five or 10 minutes, if you want to avoid stains.

That's why I transfer directly from fix to toner; I don't need to wait for the extra step.

Best,

Doremus

[LabRat]

My "bible" for this was "Life of the print" by Keefer and Inch by Light Impressions Press... An excellent, well researched compendium for the pro conservator crowd & users...

Excellent reference...

Steve K