Discolored white borders on prints

[Robert Bowring]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think mixing 6 oz. fixer with 30 oz. of water is a ratio of 1 to 5 not 1 to 4. A 1 to 4 ratio would be 6 oz. fixer with 24 oz. of water. Maybe your fixer is not strong enough. The Ilford fixer bottle says 500ml of fixer will make 2.5 liters of working solution at a ratio of 1 to 4 (500ml to 2000ml= 2.5 liters). That is the way I mix it.

[Doremus Scudder]

...
6. Full wash in running water or post-toner Ilford sequence (5 minutes in fresh running water (at ~68F), followed by 10 minutes in Ilford Washaid or Kodak HCA with agitation at 68F, followed by at least [how many?] minutes in fresh running water at ~68F).

Michael,

Seems you left out the final wash time Just to clarify:

Ilford recommends 30 minutes minimum after toning and a 10-minute treatment in wash aid.
Kodak recommends minimum 20 minutes wash after a three-minute treatment in HCA.

I like 60 minutes, personally...

Doremus

[Doremus Scudder]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think mixing 6 oz. fixer with 30 oz. of water is a ratio of 1 to 5 not 1 to 4. A 1 to 4 ratio would be 6 oz. fixer with 24 oz. of water. Maybe your fixer is not strong enough. The Ilford fixer bottle says 500ml of fixer will make 2.5 liters of working solution at a ratio of 1 to 4 (500ml to 2000ml= 2.5 liters). That is the way I mix it.

I think Ben means 6 oz. fixer concentrate in 30 oz. total of working-strength fixer, at least he should That is 6 + 24 = 30, which is 1 part in 5, and the standard 1+4 dilution.

At any rate, fixer works fine at a 1+9 dilution with a slight extension of fixing time, so the 1+5 dilution, even if that's what Ben is using, shouldn't make a huge difference, especially since Ilford has worked in a fairly generous safety factor in the fixing time (according to Michael).

Best,

Doremus

[Doremus Scudder]

Thanks all. Paper (Ilford Multigrade Classic) is new. Using fresh fix for recommended time. I keep prints totally submerged and agitated in fix. Selenium toner freshly mixed with distilled water. I follow Ilford’s wash regimen, going beyond their recommended wash times.
My original problem was running too many sheets through fixer tray— I was relying on Hypo Check drops to keep tabs on fixer strength. But even with robust new fixer at recommended times, the staining occurs with selenium toning (mixed fresh).
Is there a way to reverse the damage after toning to get rid of stains (which are not visible unless print it backlit)?
I trim the borders off when dry mounting, and the images look fine. But I’m sure the staining must encroach on the image, but I can’t see it. But I know the photo is flawed and will not last a long time.

Ben,

It seems the only possible remaining culprit is the Perma Wash. Ditch that and see what happens. If you still get stains, we'll have to start over examining all the elements once again.

One last random thought: What does your developer tray look like? If you've got a lot of silver sludge built up on the developer tray, maybe some of it is getting transferred to the back of the print during development. Since some of that may be reduced somewhat (i.e., not in halide form), maybe it is not getting fixed out and then toning along with the image silver when you tone. Try a clean tray too. I know this is a long shot, especially since some photographers' developing trays are black as the ace of spades, but eliminating every possibility isn't a bad idea...

Doremus

[Michael R]

Michael,

Seems you left out the final wash time Just to clarify:

Ilford recommends 30 minutes minimum after toning and a 10-minute treatment in wash aid.
Kodak recommends minimum 20 minutes wash after a three-minute treatment in HCA.

I like 60 minutes, personally...

Doremus

Thanks - just fixed my earlier post. I put 30 minutes (Ilford) but I personally go longer.

I really hope Ben can figure this out. It's very strange.

[John Layton]

Have not read this whole thread...but just to throw a curveball - what about your easel blades/hold downs? Are they painted, smooth, clean, rust-free? Just wonderin'.

[Ben Calwell]

Appreciate the responses. I was a strong “D” student in math. So yes, I think I got my 1+4 dilution messed up. I added 6oz of fix to 30oz water. Should have added 6 oz to 24 oz water. Still strong enough though, I think. I’ll ditch the Permawash and see what happens. Today, I used a clean developer tray. That might be a factor. And John, that’s a good point. My easel is fairly new and free of rust. I appreciate all the helpful advice. In all likelihood, though, my prints will wind up in a landfill some day and not on Antiques Roadshow.

[Robert Bowring]

Could there possibly be some sort of defect in the paper itself? Have you tried paper from a different package? Maybe you just got some defective paper somehow.

[Ben Calwell]

Could there possibly be some sort of defect in the paper itself? Have you tried paper from a different package? Maybe you just got some defective paper somehow.

Thanks, Robert. Still working my way through a 100-sheet box of Ilford Multigrade Classic. It’s the only paper I have on hand at the moment. I’ve also been corresponding with Ilford tech support about this. I sent them the batch number from the box in the event it’s a paper issue.

[Ben Calwell]

The stained photo borders saga continues:
Here's a photo of the stained border on a print that received 2 fresh fixer baths, followed by a rinse and 1 hour of washing in a tray with, shuffling, dumping and refilling the tray throughout. This time, at the suggestion of a forum member, I eliminated the Heico Permawash to see if that is the culprit. But the staining is still there.
Prior to toning, the borders were clean. The selenium toner was mixed fresh 2 days ago using distilled water. If the prints received adequate fixation, then why do they stain after being toned in selenium? As I mentioned, the borders were clean prior to toning.
Again, the staining isn't visible unless there is light shining through from behind. I was thinking that if there was a problem with my city's water supply, the borders would be stained prior to toning.
I think Doremus suggested skipping the Permawash, but the staining is still there. And that's after 1 hour of washing.
The prints received 2 fresh fixing baths in 1+4 rapid fix, along with a long wash time.
I'm at a loss.