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Thread: Discolored white borders on prints

  1. #51

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    Re: Discolored white borders on prints

    Ben,

    Your test with the unexposed sheets shows that the problem is not paper fogging or developer-related issues.

    Since you get no stains with an intermediate wash between fix one and two, I'm betting that, without the wash, something is being carried over that causes the staining. So, you want to keep the intermediate wash. You know the saying, "Whatever works."

    It also seems that Perma Wash isn't your problem.

    A lot of hard work, but now it seems you have a regime that works for you. So keep it!

    I imagine that you could wash and dry prints after fix one then soak them before fixing in bath two and toning like I do. I like to collect around 36 prints for a toning session, so I'll print, giving just fix one and washing and drying prints for a few days till I accumulate enough keepers for a toning session. Sounds like that regime would work for you too. I, too, don't think that drying before fix two will make any difference; it seems to be the wash step that you need.

    Best,

    Doremus

  2. #52

    Join Date
    Feb 1999
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    845

    Re: Discolored white borders on prints

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    Ben,

    Your test with the unexposed sheets shows that the problem is not paper fogging or developer-related issues.

    Since you get no stains with an intermediate wash between fix one and two, I'm betting that, without the wash, something is being carried over that causes the staining. So, you want to keep the intermediate wash. You know the saying, "Whatever works."

    It also seems that Perma Wash isn't your problem.

    A lot of hard work, but now it seems you have a regime that works for you. So keep it!

    I imagine that you could wash and dry prints after fix one then soak them before fixing in bath two and toning like I do. I like to collect around 36 prints for a toning session, so I'll print, giving just fix one and washing and drying prints for a few days till I accumulate enough keepers for a toning session. Sounds like that regime would work for you too. I, too, don't think that drying before fix two will make any difference; it seems to be the wash step that you need.

    Best,

    Doremus
    Thanks, Doremus. I think the wash between fix 1 and 2 is something I’ll keep up. I appreciate all the advice from you and others on the forum. Hopefully, this issue won’t crop up again.

  3. #53

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    Sep 2014
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    Re: Discolored white borders on prints

    If you’re going to dry the prints and/or delay toning etc. to sometime later, it is imperative the print receives a full/complete wash after fixing.

    I rarely tone prints the day I print them, so basically when they come out of the fix I treat them the same as if they were not destined for toning. A complete final wash.

  4. #54

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    Feb 1999
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    Re: Discolored white borders on prints

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    If you’re going to dry the prints and/or delay toning etc. to sometime later, it is imperative the print receives a full/complete wash after fixing.

    I rarely tone prints the day I print them, so basically when they come out of the fix I treat them the same as if they were not destined for toning. A complete final wash.
    Thanks, Michael. Do you give your prints a second fix before toning?

  5. #55

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    Re: Discolored white borders on prints

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Calwell View Post
    Thanks, Michael. Do you give your prints a second fix before toning?
    No. I’m a pretty “low volume” printer so I keep it simple. Single bath of Ilford Rapid Fix 1+4. Fix for 1 minute, then a complete wash cycle. For me the wash is 10 minutes in running water, then 10 minutes in hypo clearing, then 30 minutes in running water. I typically tone the next day or days later. You definitely don’t want to leave fixer in the paper longer than necessary during processing, so if there is going to be any delay before the final wash, you basically need to do a thorough wash first.

    Regarding fixer throughout, for people who do more prints than I do, the standard two-bath method is worth considering.

  6. #56

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    Feb 1999
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    Re: Discolored white borders on prints

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    No. I’m a pretty “low volume” printer so I keep it simple. Single bath of Ilford Rapid Fix 1+4. Fix for 1 minute, then a complete wash cycle. For me the wash is 10 minutes in running water, then 10 minutes in hypo clearing, then 30 minutes in running water. I typically tone the next day or days later. You definitely don’t want to leave fixer in the paper longer than necessary during processing, so if there is going to be any delay before the final wash, you basically need to do a thorough wash first.

    Regarding fixer throughout, for people who do more prints than I do, the standard two-bath method is worth considering.
    Michael,
    Just so I understand correctly, the wash routine you describe — is that after you’ve toned a print, or before toning?

  7. #57

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    Re: Discolored white borders on prints

    Both. If I was going to tone right away I would simply go from the fixer directly into the selenium toner, followed by the wash sequence. But I don’t print and tone at the same time so I have to do the wash twice. My wash sequence at this point is basically the same as Ilford’s recommended sequence following toning (I give 10 minutes for the first rinse instead of Ilford’s 5 minutes, but otherwise it’s the same). Note this is a bit of overkill for a wash without toning (or before toning). Without selenium toning, Ilford’s sequence is significantly shorter, so you could certainly follow that one if you’re going to dry the prints and tone at a later time. Ilford recommends 5 minutes in running water, then 10 minutes in hypo clear, then only 5 minutes in water.

    And as always, you don’t need to use hypo clearing agent. Water does as good a job. It just takes longer/more water. I only started using hypo clearing agent about ten years ago. Prior to that it was the plain old fashioned way (60-120 minute wash depending on the paper and toning). When using water alone for washing, Ilford’s Multigrade Classic washes somewhat faster than other FB papers (30-45 minutes according to Ilford).

  8. #58

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    Re: Discolored white borders on prints

    Michael's point about a thorough wash between sessions if you're going to dry your prints in between is important. That's what I do.

    My workflow, just FYI:

    Printing session: develop, stop, fix 1, wash minimum 60 minutes, dry.

    Toning session: soak, fix 2, toner, wash aid, wash minimum 60 minutes, dry.

    I use Ilford Rapid Fixer or Hypam (without hardener) at the 1+9 dilution for both sessions. Fixing times are 1.5-2 minutes each bath. My capacity, determined by testing plus a safety/convenience factor, is 36 8x10s per liter of bath one or equivalent.

    I'll print for several days, mixing new fix as needed when capacity is reached. When I've collected enough prints for a toning session, I'll mix fresh fix for bath 2. After the toning session, I'll promote that fix to bath 1 for the next printing session if I'm going to continue printing right away.

    I test the last print through for both residual silver and hypo using the KRST test and the Kodak HT-2 test respectively.

    As I mentioned; I've never had a problem with staining.

    The important thing is to find a regime that works well for you and test your prints to make sure that you are fixing and washing adequately.

    Best and happy toning,

    Doremus

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