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Thread: Nikkor-T 360mm / 500mm / 720m: 500mm at full aperture with 4x5 film, how good?

  1. #11
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Nikkor-T 360mm / 500mm / 720m: 500mm at full aperture with 4x5 film, how good?

    It's no dog. But it certainly wasn't engineered for full aperture usage. Nor were any of these. I'm not a tele user myself, but do know people who have had exceptional outdoor photography careers reliant on the Fuji 400T. I've seen a lot of those shots enlarged to 40X60 inches; and it was the tele of choice for some superbly published expedition work such as that of Shirahata in the Himalayas and Karakoram. Atmospheric conditions are more of a factor in tele work sharpness rather than nitipickiness over modern multicoated optics. Going non-tele with apo process lenses would be better than all the above, but of course would involve very long bellows extensions more suited to monorail work. But you seem to have certain other priorities in mind rather than sharpness per se, or even than serious weight reduction. You didn't even mention what specific camera this is for.

  2. #12

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    Re: Nikkor-T 360mm / 500mm / 720m: 500mm at full aperture with 4x5 film, how good?

    I can't speak for the performance of the Nikkor lenses, but I have tested a copy each of the Komura 500mm f/7 and the Fujinon T 600mm f/12. Both had similar performance, very decent wide open and both were sharper in the center when stopped down, about the same as a average plasmat. The Komura was oddly slightly softer on the corners stopped down than wide open and the Fujinon showed no visible change in the corners stopping down.

    Both lenses have plenty of resolution for large prints, and I wouldn't hesitate to use either wide open.
    Jim

  3. #13

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    Re: Nikkor-T 360mm / 500mm / 720m: 500mm at full aperture with 4x5 film, how good?

    I've been pretty favorably impressed by Fujinon lenses of all stripes. I use a 250mm for LF and I have a Fuji GX680 with six lenses. Just for fun I ran a series of tests comparing the Zeiss lenses on my Hasselblad with the Fujinons on the 680 - Fujinons were every bit as sharp and in some cases slightly better than the corresponding Zeiss lenses - which are excellent. I also have a Fujinon lens on one of my video cams and it's been a stellar performer.

    Having said all that, the older I get the more I tend to prefer older lenses like Heliars and Dagor and late 1800's lenses. Sharpness is nice but it isn't the whole story IMHO.

  4. #14

    Re: Nikkor-T 360mm / 500mm / 720m: 500mm at full aperture with 4x5 film, how good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Andrada View Post
    I've been pretty favorably impressed by Fujinon lenses of all stripes. I use a 250mm for LF and I have a Fuji GX680 with six lenses. Just for fun I ran a series of tests comparing the Zeiss lenses on my Hasselblad with the Fujinons on the 680 - Fujinons were every bit as sharp and in some cases slightly better than the corresponding Zeiss lenses - which are excellent. I also have a Fujinon lens on one of my video cams and it's been a stellar performer.

    Having said all that, the older I get the more I tend to prefer older lenses like Heliars and Dagor and late 1800's lenses. Sharpness is nice but it isn't the whole story IMHO.
    I could not agree more re: Fujinon lenses. I did not use many of them, one on MF and one on LF, but they were both superb lenses. That's why I have some hopes re: the Fujinon-T 400mm. Yes, absolutely, sharpness isn't the whole story.

    Drew, the camera is the new Stenopeika carbon fiber 4x5 camera. Delivery end of January, review on my Youtube channel in the March time frame. It will be primarily used with a tele in the 350-500mm range. I expect most pictures to be in the 5-20m range (urban details, studio shots), so a 400mm focal length may be a safer choice (max bellows extension of the camera: 520mm).

  5. #15

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    Re: Nikkor-T 360mm / 500mm / 720m: 500mm at full aperture with 4x5 film, how good?

    Justification or telephoto view camera lenses is to reduce the front to rear standards distance (aka bellows draw) for a given focal length, trading off other optical design aspects. There is no 'free lunch".. Telephoto design LF lenses were intended for field folders were bellows draw is limited combined with a need for lightweight lenses that are desirable for ease of portability. This is why most do not have larger apertures of f8 or larger. Know most of these Tele LF lenses are designed to be best at f22 or so with full aperture being trades off for optical performance like image circle and/or other optical performance factors.

    One other aspect of LF lenses, individual lens samples can vary. Web based rant-raves of a specific lens might not hold true for a given sample as it could be damaged or ? due to a long list of factors. The ideal action before commitment to ownership is to test the specific lens being considered for ownership LOTs..

    One other factoid regarding LF lenses, majority of them were designed, marketed and intended for serious photographic image making. Back in the day before LF gear was widely available at low cost today. There are few if any "inferior" LF lenses made and sold back in the day due to this market reality. Fact is LF lenses from any of the big four, Nikkor, Schneider, Fujinon, Rodenstock are essentially equal in more ways than different.


    Bernice



    Quote Originally Posted by Marco Annaratone View Post
    It will be primarily used with a tele in the 350-500mm range. I expect most pictures to be in the 5-20m range (urban details, studio shots), so a 400mm focal length may be a safer choice (max bellows extension of the camera: 520mm).

  6. #16

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    Re: Nikkor-T 360mm / 500mm / 720m: 500mm at full aperture with 4x5 film, how good?

    Amen

  7. #17

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    Re: Nikkor-T 360mm / 500mm / 720m: 500mm at full aperture with 4x5 film, how good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    Telephoto design LF lenses were intended for field folders were bellows draw is limited combined with a need for lightweight lenses that are desirable for ease of portability. This is why most do not have larger apertures of f8 or larger.
    Bernice, my 12"/4 TTH telephoto, ex-AGI F.139, doesn't quite agree with you. I've never tried it on 4x5, which the VM says it just covers. It seems to be the longest lens that works comfortably on a 2x3 Speed Graphic, makes infinity with the rear of the barrel inside the box. There are other aerial camera teles with more coverage and similar maximum apertures. Some are quite large and heavy.

  8. #18

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    Re: Nikkor-T 360mm / 500mm / 720m: 500mm at full aperture with 4x5 film, how good?

    What you're saying Dan is this 12"/4 TTH telephoto focuses to infinity at a short distance (less than 12") from the film plane area?
    That would be 12" focal length f4 ?

    In a similar way to schneider 500mm f5.5 Tele Xenar makes focus at infinity at 312mm to the film plane, 360mm f5.5 Tele Xenar makes focus at infinity at 214mm ?

    Please clarify.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Bernice, my 12"/4 TTH telephoto, ex-AGI F.139, doesn't quite agree with you. I've never tried it on 4x5, which the VM says it just covers. It seems to be the longest lens that works comfortably on a 2x3 Speed Graphic, makes infinity with the rear of the barrel inside the box. There are other aerial camera teles with more coverage and similar maximum apertures. Some are quite large and heavy.

  9. #19

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    Re: Nikkor-T 360mm / 500mm / 720m: 500mm at full aperture with 4x5 film, how good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    What you're saying Dan is this 12"/4 TTH telephoto focuses to infinity at a short distance (less than 12") from the film plane area?
    That would be 12" focal length f4 ?
    Yes and yes. The lens' back focus is ~ 85 mm. I mean, it is a telephoto lens.

  10. #20

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    Re: Nikkor-T 360mm / 500mm / 720m: 500mm at full aperture with 4x5 film, how good?

    Which makes that 12" f4 TTH a tele photo lens. More extreme examples of this can be found in smaller film format lenses.

    Like this Canon 1200mm f5.6 telephoto lens with a back focal distance of 44mm at infinity.
    https://petapixel.com/2015/05/22/a-p...f-1200mm-lens/


    Point being ... again. Telephoto design LF lenses have a goal of reducing their back focal distance to work better with field folders and similar cameras with limited distance separation between front to rear standards of the camera (aka bellows draw) trading off other aspects of optical performance.

    In the larger view of longer than normal focal length lenses, the better choice is a non telephoto design LF lens as these do not have the optical design trade off that telephoto design lenses do. APO process lenses work surprisingly well as longer than normal focal length lenses for sheet film. Which brings up the reason why the 500mm f5.5 and 360mm f5.5 tele xenar is in the lens set, they have a full aperture of f5.5. While their optical performance at f5.5 is not premium, it is absolutely good enough to produce effective images. That aspect of these f5.5 lenses justify their being here. Otherwise, the APO Ronar, APO Artar or similar stopped down to f16 - f32 is optical performance wise better than the tele xenars and likely similar LF tele design lenses. Having been and done the BIG 600mm f9/ 800mm f12 /1200mm f18 tele Nikkor in years past, the APO process lenses proved to be a better overall choice for longer than normal focal length LF lens.

    If large aperture is needed, 480mm f4.5 Xenar. There were a number of HUGE lenses like this made for LF in the past. Large aperture long focal length lenses were also used for aero-recon from years gone by.


    Bernice

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Yes and yes. The lens' back focus is ~ 85 mm. I mean, it is a telephoto lens.
    Last edited by Bernice Loui; 12-Jan-2021 at 11:47.

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