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Thread: Large Carbon Prints from small negative

  1. #1

    Large Carbon Prints from small negative

    Hi, I have a question about the carbon print process. I would like to try to make large format prints starting from a 4x5 negative, all in analog, therefore without going through the scanning of the negative to enlarge it on a glossy sheet. The solution would be to make a positive duplicate on another 4x5 negative, and then enlarge the positive on an ULF negative, for example 8x10 or more. Then print. I wonder if the enlargement process nullifies the advantage of contact printing by introducing grain and detail decay.

    Than you

  2. #2

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    Re: Large Carbon Prints from small negative

    Carbon printing is by nature a contact only process due to the speed (or lack of) exposing the tissue with UV light. I have not made darkroom enlarged negatives in a very long time and then the were used for gum printing. It can be done, but it is laborious. I might suggest that you begin making 4x5 carbon prints perfect your process as a beginning. The Carbon Printing group has lots of good information. https://groups.io/g/carbon
    Ron McElroy
    Memphis

  3. #3

    Re: Large Carbon Prints from small negative

    Hi Ron, thanks for the reply. I know that carbon print is a contact process and given that once the technique has been refined, print a 4x5, an 8x10 or larger, the difficulty is the same, I think the biggest problem is precisely to obtain a quality enlargement of the original negative. The will to do it in analogue is just a purist habit! The problem is that Ilford's ULF negatives cost a lot, and before starting this research I wanted to understand if it makes sense, in terms of final print quality, or if it's not worth it and it's better to go digital to get the negative. enlarged. Thanks for the link to the Carbon Print Group!

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    Re: Large Carbon Prints from small negative

    KODAK PROFESSIONAL B/WDuplicating Film SO-132 in 4x5 or 8x10. Is it still being made and if so, might it do the job for you?
    ” Never attribute to inspiration that which can be adequately explained by delusion”.

  5. #5
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    Re: Large Carbon Prints from small negative

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    KODAK PROFESSIONAL B/WDuplicating Film SO-132 in 4x5 or 8x10. Is it still being made and if so, might it do the job for you?
    It was discontinued long ago.

  6. #6

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    Re: Large Carbon Prints from small negative

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    It was discontinued long ago.
    Is anyone making direct duplicating film these days?
    ” Never attribute to inspiration that which can be adequately explained by delusion”.

  7. #7
    Pastafarian supremo Rick A's Avatar
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    Re: Large Carbon Prints from small negative

    You can use ortho film to make the interpositive. I use X ray film for this purpose, sometimes I enlarge to make the positive, then contact print to get an enlarged negative. I use the enlarged positive for screen printing.
    Rick Allen

    Argentum Aevum

    practicing Pastafarian

  8. #8
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: Large Carbon Prints from small negative

    Enlarging to make a full size positive would give one the opportunity to do standard dodging/burning would be a good way to go. As long as the enlarger set up is well aligned and solid, one should be able to get an enlarged negative that looks as sharp as a silver gelatin print made the same size from the same negative. If that is sharp enough, go for it.

    I think an enlarged negative can be as sharp as an inkjet negative -- the difference is the sharpening one can do with digital negatives that gives an appearance of a sharper image.

    I solved this issue by getting bigger cameras....
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  9. #9
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Large Carbon Prints from small negative

    Extremely good optically enlarged negs are possible, but the devil is in the details. I made several 4x5 to 8x10 yesterday using a 240/9 Apo Nikkor lens, which is superb at this scale of magnification, along with a precise pin-registered vacuum board. The carrier in the enlarger has anti-Newton glass on both sides. With double neg technique, you want the projection interpositive a little bit overexposed yet underdeveloped. Then you contact print this to your final full-scale interpositive, and develop that to full intended contrast suitable for the given print medium. Or to save money, you could do a 4x5 to 4x5 contact interpositive, and then enlarge that to the working size neg.

    I haven't used any of the new films intended for one-step technique, so can't comment on those. FP4 and TMax films are excellent for the two step method. All kinds of fine-tuning controls are possible using real film. No inkjet transparency can hold the same level of detail or subtlety of gradation. But the question nowadays is the expense involved with especially large sheet film sizes (over 8x10). Don't think you'll save money using thin Ortho Litho film. It's hard to control for continuous tone work, and you'll waste a lot trying, although it seems popular for a funky unpredictably blotchy kind of output. Been there, done that; not worth it.

  10. #10
    LF/ULF Carbon Printer Jim Fitzgerald's Avatar
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    Re: Large Carbon Prints from small negative

    I just kept building bigger cameras! Stopped at 14x17.

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