Front Axis Tilt vs Front Base Tilt: Strategy??

[AdamD]

Can anyone explain how using axis tilt differs from base tilt in terms of strategy? What I mean is this....

First, with axis tilt, you focus on the near, tilt for the far. With base tilt, it's the opposite, focus on the far and tilt for the near.

With that said, does one method have any other aspects to it and how can you use it to your advantage? Is there any strategy involved with setting up a shot that one tilt method offers that the other can't?

OR is this six of one half dozen of another?

If you had both on a camera, what would you use and why?

Thanks for the tip!!

[Bob Salomon]

Base tilts will change the position of subjects on the gg. With true on axis movements subject placement doesn’t change.

[ic-racer]

I usually focus as I tilt. On hand on the tilting part and one hand on the focus knob.

[Vaughn]

First, with axis tilt, you focus on the near, tilt for the far.

I work differently with axis tilt...in the most simplest scene situation, I focus about 1/3 of the way into the scene (or into the area I want to be sharp), then tilt for both near and far focus. If everything is not in focus wide open (usual for my scenes), I then look at near and far areas on the GG as I reduce the aperture. If near and far come into focus at the same time, I have placed my plane of focus properly. When both near and far come together, I check the f/stop...and if possible, close it down another one or two stops if the length of exposure allows it.

With base tilt, I do more like ic-racer. I just reconize that I am changing the film to lens distance as I use base tilt, and I move the standard to counter this movement.

[Bernice Loui]

Either front axis or base tilt will work fine to achieve the camera movement needed to aid in focus. Much a matter of knowing how to apply camera movements as needed. This comes with using a view camera with movements lots.

Might want to look at this previous post on camera movement example:
https://www.largeformatphotography.i...-aperture-used


For a field folder, IMO, mostly not that significant as camera movements need of a field camera are usually not as demanding as in-studio table top mass production images.

The popularity of asymmetrical tilt-swing happened due to cameras like the Sinar P where the photographer has a need to produce a LOT (hundreds of color transparencies) of in studio table top or similar images. For each image made, if the camera movements can be made quick, easy and precise the image production process is faster and easier at lower cost (business, time = $). If camera movements are combined as exampled with camera tilt & swing & rise-fall. asymmetrical tilt-swings that are precision geared simply work. All of this is vast over-kill for a field folder.


Bernice

[Doremus Scudder]

Can anyone explain how using axis tilt differs from base tilt in terms of strategy? What I mean is this....

First, with axis tilt, you focus on the near, tilt for the far. With base tilt, it's the opposite, focus on the far and tilt for the near.

With that said, does one method have any other aspects to it and how can you use it to your advantage? Is there any strategy involved with setting up a shot that one tilt method offers that the other can't?

OR is this six of one half dozen of another?

If you had both on a camera, what would you use and why?

Thanks for the tip!!

Observation: When using axis tilts, I don't "focus on the near, tilt for the far." I place a focus point (i.e., one of the points along the plane that I want to be in sharp focus) on the axis and then tilt till one or more focus points (ideally one closer and one farther), on that same desired plane of sharp focus, comes into focus. This applies to both front and rear axis tilts.

The same with asymmetrical tilts (which are normally only on the back standard); the axis is simply offset from center.

Vaughn is basically doing the same thing, that is, his "focusing one-third into the scene" includes a point he wants in focus on his desired plane of sharp focus. Then he tilts till points on that same plane nearer and further from his initial focus point come into focus. This is, IM-HO, the easiest way to deal with axis and asymmetrical tilts.

To recap: for axis tilts, focus a desired point on the axis, then tilt till the other parts of the desired plane of sharp focus are sharp.

Note that tilting around the axis should not change the focus of the image that lies on the axis, in theory. In practice, depending on camera design, tilting around the axis may displace the front standard a bit, necessitating refocusing on the initial point and checking the others and adjusting a bit if necessary. Well-designed and precise axis tilts don't require this, but I've had axis tilts that did.

For base tilts, the method is different because the tilting itself moves the lens or back away from its initial position, thus changing the overall focus. Note that with axis tilts, one line (the axis line) always remains in the original pre-tilt position. With base tilts, nothing stays in the original position. So, we have to refocus. If you end up making the bellows longer with a tilt (front forward tilt or back backward tilt), then you have to refocus shorter (and vice-versa, but tilting the front back or the back forward happens less often).

My method for dealing with base tilts is as follows:

1. focus (using your loupe) on a point you want to be in the plane of sharp focus at the bottom of the ground glass (this is most often a far point, but even if it's not, you should start at the bottom of the ground glass).

2. find a point at the top of the ground glass that you want to be in the plane of sharp focus (don't do anything yet, just choose your point).

3. tilt till both points appear equally out-of-focus. Just eyeball this; no real precision is needed yet.

4. refocus your initial point at the bottom of the ground glass using your loupe. This is the end of the first stage.

5. now, using your loupe, check focus on the second point you chose; the one at the top of the ground glass. Don't adjust focus yet, just look at it. If it happens to be perfectly in focus, then, voilà, you've got the right amount of tilt and you can stop here and forget the rest of the steps. Usually, that doesn't happen, in which case you need to do the following:

6. While watching your second focus point (top of the ground glass) tweak your focus knob just a bit in one direction only. Don't fiddle or move focus back-and-forth, just tweak it a bit in one direction to see what happens to your focus point. What happens to the focus on your focus point determines how you will adjust your tilt. I always tweak focus closer (i.e., lengthening the bellows/moving the lens stage forward), so I'll assume that in my description here; if you tweak the other direction, then everything is simply reversed.

7. So you've tweaked focus shorter (longer bellows) while observing your second focus point with your loupe.
---a) If the focus gets better/sharper, then you need to adjust your tilt a tiny bit (tiny is the key word here) in the same direction as you tweaked focus, in this case, making the bellows longer, which translates to moving the tilt a bit forward for the front standard or backward for the back standard.
---b) If the focus on your initial focus point gets worse, then you need to do the opposite, i.e., tilt to shorten the bellows; back for the front standard or forward for the back standard.

8. Make the (small) adjustment to your tilt and refocus your initial focus point (the one at the bottom of the ground glass).

9. Now, simply repeat steps 5 - 8 until your second focus point is in sharp focus without needing further adjustment.

The usual mistake when starting out with base tilts is to overshoot the adjustment you need to make to the tilt (step 7). But, with time, you will get a feeling for how much adjustment is necessary and be able to streamline the process. With practice, you can get the process down to one or two iterations.

The whole process takes a magnitude more time to describe adequately than to actually do, so don't be put off by my wordy description

As for which tilt I'd choose if I had both on a camera... Axis tilts are a bit faster, so all other things being equal, I'd use them. The deal is, the usual trade-off for lighter weight for field cameras is usually the omission of axis tilts. Since I rarely use cameras that have axis tilts in the field, I've just learned to deal with base tilts. I think I'm just about as fast with base tilts as axis tilts. Also, some field cameras that do offer axis tilts have them on the same control knob that adjusts front rise/fall. If using axis tilts means I have to deal with re-adjusting the rise or fall, then I'd just as soon use the base tilts.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[AdamD]

Doremus,

Your post needs to be archived into the Large Format Forum Hall of Fame!!

Thank you so much. This is outstanding help. And I totally followed everything. Makes sense.

Thx!

[Daniel Unkefer]

Back in the seventies I learned a lot reading Fred Picker. Using my Sinar 4x5 Norma I would focus on the far, usually screen bottom. Then tilt while re-focusing. Last step was to determine where you want the focus depth to begin and end, using a magnifier.

Frozen Cypress Dawes by Nokton48, on Flickr

Typical landscape where this applies. Actually I have axis tilting Plaubel Peco Profias, as well as my base tilting Norma. Sometimes depending on the subject and the intended technique it is good to have a choice of tilts.

Dawes Cypress Wet by Nokton48, on Flickr

[Chuck Pere]

Doremus, In step 7 are you observing your initial focusing point at bottom or second focusing point at top?

[Alan Klein]

I've been using my asymmetrical tilt on my Chamonix 45H-1 back standard. I line up the far point, not usually the distant horizon but a point pretty far, with the line on the GG the represents the axis of the back standard. Then I pick a close point I want on focus and tilt the back standard back to get it in focus. I'm done.

The only issue is if the far distance point isn't on the GG's axis line. Then I raise or lower the front standard until it is, focus, then raise or lower the standard back to where I want the framing for the picture. Then do the back tilt for the near focus point. The focus doesn't shift even when I raise and lower the front standard.

I'm not sure there's a better way so if anyone has suggestions, please jump in.