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Thread: Double sided inkjet paper recommendations

  1. #11

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    Re: Double sided inkjet paper recommendations

    What is your tipping-in process? Glue?

  2. #12

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    Re: Double sided inkjet paper recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by sabeluc View Post
    What is your tipping-in process? Glue?
    Yes - the usual archival bookbinding pastes/ glues work fine - just beware of the usual need for acid free/ non-buffered materials with certain kinds of print. And you need to pay attention to the thickness of your tip-ins relative to the page thickness - above a certain point you will need to reduce alternating pages to stubs if the book is to behave properly - or if you're feeling really adventurous, you can guard your prints on to those page stubs using Japanese paper...

  3. #13

    Re: Double sided inkjet paper recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by sabeluc View Post
    The double sided luster paper from Red River is better than the mattes in terms of contrast but it has a coating that cracks when folded and an annoying rubbery feeling, so it won't work well as pages in a book.
    any thoughts on how this (i think what you're referencing is 50 lb Arctic Polar Luster Double-sided) compares to Red River's old 45 lb Zeppelin Semigloss?

    I have been using polor or premium matte double sided and spraying them for book dummies, but am tempted to try the 50 lb luster to avoid the literal headache of the spray coat and also because I plan on folding the pages into signatures so the cracks would be hidden...and I guess most importantly if the book were ever printed 'for real' I wouldn't want it to be matte paper...

  4. #14

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    Re: Double sided inkjet paper recommendations

    Sorry, no have experience with their older papers. I did try folding the luster double-sided and it cracked. It also has a rubbery feel that is not at all like a commercial photo book (which I believe would be matte paper coated with a slippery clear after printing). I agree with not wanting matte pages, but the rubbery feel is pronounced so if your goal is to create a prototype that feels like a real photo book, you won't get it with that paper.

    Agree that the spray is awful to be around. I used the Moab desert varnish for a photo printed on Canson Platine for the cover and it increased the glossiness a notch but did not seem to increase gloss or contrast on the matte pages. Ultimately, I decided not to use it on the book pages because I didn't want to breathe it.

    I am a bookbinding novice, but I think depending on your binding method, you might see the cracked coating at the spine between pages. it also may be thicker / more irregular where the coating is flaking and make the book block funky at the spine.

    I made 4-page signatures out of 11x17 red river premium matte 50lb double sided (short grain). I glued the spine and reinforced it with gauze (not sewn) and the block looked great and opened flat. The inkjet coating on the paper was problematic when gluing the first and last pages onto the cover. It absorbs a huge amount of water out of the glue almost instantly and expands about 2mm per 8" wide page. I found PVA glue with a brush to be a total disaster but was more successful with nori paste applied to the cover and a small amount of PVA around the edges where the paper meets the cloth. Probably better to use a different paper for the first and last signature.

  5. #15

    Re: Double sided inkjet paper recommendations

    Thanks, I went ahead and ordered a box, but sort of wish I hadn't. It is very plastic/rubbery feeling. I'm going to experiment a little before giving up on it. Using a bone folder and being patient, it seems like I can get it to fold with minimal cracking. The last few times I've done this I've printed the images out using the print booklet function from Indesign and taken the pages to a bindery here in Los Angeles called A-1 Bookbinding (not cheap, but good) and had them trim the pages and sew the signatures together after I've folded them. I'm going to show them a test after the holidays and see if they think the cracking would show.

    Not sure how much black is in your images or if you are using interleaving tissue, but I found if I didn't spray the matte pages the blacks and heavy ink areas would rub off on facing blank pages or lighter toned plates. (not right away but after weeks/months of handling) It did seem to help to spray them twice with the freestyle version of the hahnemhulhle print shield. But even outside with a proper full mask with the cartridges it's a nasty business...I'm committed to not going through that this time...

    I do wish red river still made Zeppelin paper. I have a test print from an old sample pack but never actually made a book with it, but it is way less rubbery/shiny feeling then the luster double sided. If anyone knows a similar double sided paper made by another company I'd love to hear it.
    Last edited by Chester McCheeserton; 22-Dec-2020 at 00:08.

  6. #16

    Re: Double sided inkjet paper recommendations

    Update: i printed the dummy on the double sided luster grain short paper from red river and had it bound with a hardcover. I printed the file from indesign using the print booklet feature to create a postscript file, then opened that in preview and in the epson print dialog selected print only odd pages, printed those, kept them in order, then flipped the stack and printed the even pages on the other side. The registration isn't perfect but was close enough – I always use the manual rear sheet feeder on my 3880. The signatures were 12 pages, so 3 sheets of 13 x 19 with 4 pages to each sheet. To get a good clean crease with this paper it was tedious with the scoring and the bone folder, but I cannot see any cracking at all in the finished product. The sound that the pages make when you turn them isn't great, but I'd do it again, to me the sound is worth the trade off of not having to spray the prints and having the surface not be matte.

    also sebeluc, the place I took the signatures to get bound, like you, was wary of the glue bonding from the endpapers to the first and and last page. The did a quick test with a scrap while I was there, and whatever glue they used seemed to hold, though they advised me to choose white endpapers that would hide any excess glue...looks okay to me .

  7. #17
    multiplex
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    Re: Double sided inkjet paper recommendations

    if you already have the images as images, there are other options to making photographic books. I've never made them printing using a printer and double sided ink jet paper but with actual prints open spine as well as cased/closed spine... I've tipped in (using wheat paste ) on a blank page book that I Japanese bind myself ( I've done both black and white pages, black is tricky because of the paste ) and I've made a mock book, mapped out what pages were going to be which and printed signatures for my book block by masking and printing on photo paper. if double sided images are wanted you can glue pages together back to back and make a carousel or stitched open spine or closed with tapes &c book. you can easily do this with ink jet images too. it's a lot of work and time consuming but worth it in the end. Keith Smith's books on making books are fantastic and readily available off his website or amazon &c. I've probably made IDK 20-30 books like this, these days im making a lot of books out of single pages, it's lots of fun. be advised if the images are tipped onto each page, the book will fan, unless you take into account the thickness of the images when you stitch the spine, sometimes fanned pages are the in-thing, not sure the way the wind is blowing these days. there's lots of tutorials on the web too... Jennifer (sea lemon) does a great job on her you tube channel. be careful, making books might end up an addiction..
    good luck !

    on a side note the PBS documentary "the book makers" is pretty amazing if you like that sort of thing..
    Last edited by jnantz; 8-Oct-2022 at 06:47.

  8. #18
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Double sided inkjet paper recommendations

    Tin Can

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