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Thread: Techniques/Procedure for front tilt and focusing

  1. #11

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    Re: Techniques/Procedure for front tilt and focusing

    Find the Linhof table for max resolution and print it. It might guide you to a smaller aperture.

    Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

  2. #12
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Techniques/Procedure for front tilt and focusing

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    Alan,

    The discussion here was about front tilts, where asymmetrical movements aren't usually available. I don't know of a camera with asymmetrical front movements. I can't really see how they would be accomplished, since you wouldn't have any reference lines for the axes and the axes would move about with any shift or rise. I imagine your camera simply has either axis or base tilts on the front standard (maybe both?).

    Asymmetrical back movements are essentially axis tilts/swings with the axis simply being off-center a bit. So, exactly the same techniques we use for axis tilts/swings works for asymmetrical movements. Simply focus one of your chosen reference points on the axis (the off-center reference lines on the ground glass shows these) and then tilt or swing till the other desired reference point is in focus.

    The problem with using back tilt in many cases is that it moves the back out of plumb, a real no-no for most architectural work, where you want parallel verticals not to converge and often not desirable in landscape work for the same reason (converging trees, etc. plus the near-far rendering).

    So, we should learn to deal with front tilt so we can better handle such situations.

    Best,

    Doremus
    I'm trying to understand why in theory, front asymmetrical tilts will or won't work. Here's the link to my camera. You can see both the front and rear standards' axises are about a third up. So couldn't you focus the initial far setting on the axis for either. Then tilt the front or rear to get the near point in focus? Why is the camera limited to tilting the rear only for asymmetrical? (Of course, you can use the front to tilt in typical fashion)
    https://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/cameras/45h1

  3. #13

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    Re: Techniques/Procedure for front tilt and focusing

    Ok, I need to reel it in.....can we get back to my problem getting good focus.

    I did some practicing today an I find that if my scene has, let's just say a rock in the foreground at a "safe" distance away at about 10 feet AND the background is not too far away (under 1000 meters), I'm good. I can pretty much always get good focus using some tilt and things work out pretty well.

    My problem is with really deep fields of view where that rock is about 5 feet away AND the distant mountains are miles away.

    I do like the focus mid-point method where I find the near focus point, the far focus point and move the focus to the middle and then start tilting from there. That works well for the scenes that are not too deep.

    If I use that method to focus on very deep fields, as I tilt I can get one area in focus, but I blow out the other. I tried playing around with the focus starting point, but I just can't get it all in focus.

    It seems like I should be able to do it, because others have done it, but I must just be doing it wrong.

    I have to admit, I have not tried the focus on a mid-point method using axis-tilt which is what I have. I'll try that tomorrow.

    Any ideas?

  4. #14

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    Re: Techniques/Procedure for front tilt and focusing

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamD View Post
    Ok, I need to reel it in.....can we get back to my problem getting good focus.

    I did some practicing today an I find that if my scene has, let's just say a rock in the foreground at a "safe" distance away at about 10 feet AND the background is not too far away (under 1000 meters), I'm good. I can pretty much always get good focus using some tilt and things work out pretty well.

    My problem is with really deep fields of view where that rock is about 5 feet away AND the distant mountains are miles away.

    I do like the focus mid-point method where I find the near focus point, the far focus point and move the focus to the middle and then start tilting from there. That works well for the scenes that are not too deep.

    If I use that method to focus on very deep fields, as I tilt I can get one area in focus, but I blow out the other. I tried playing around with the focus starting point, but I just can't get it all in focus.

    It seems like I should be able to do it, because others have done it, but I must just be doing it wrong.

    I have to admit, I have not tried the focus on a mid-point method using axis-tilt which is what I have. I'll try that tomorrow.

    Any ideas?
    Tilts control the plane of sharp focus, not the depth of field. That is controlled by aperture, coc, focus point and desired amount of print magnification.
    Try focusing 1/3rd into the scene. Half way is for close up work.
    Swings also control the plane of sharp focus. If you use rear tilts and swings you also control subject shape.

  5. #15

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    Re: Techniques/Procedure for front tilt and focusing

    I think I should clarify something.

    When I try to get very deep fields of view in focus, I'm not expecting that to happen at f/5.6. I am using f/5.6 however to get things close. Once I see I've got the foreground in sharp focus after tilting the front standard AND getting the mid-ground AND background reasonably close, I then stop down to find the place it all comes together. This typically happens by f/32.

    Anyway, my problem is just consistently being able to do that with deep fields of view.

  6. #16

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    Re: Techniques/Procedure for front tilt and focusing

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamD View Post
    I think I should clarify something.

    When I try to get very deep fields of view in focus, I'm not expecting that to happen at f/5.6. I am using f/5.6 however to get things close. Once I see I've got the foreground in sharp focus after tilting the front standard AND getting the mid-ground AND background reasonably close, I then stop down to find the place it all comes together. This typically happens by f/32.

    Anyway, my problem is just consistently being able to do that with deep fields of view.
    To complicate your procedure you are shooting in diffraction at 32. Most 45 modern lenses are diffraction limited at 22.

  7. #17

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    Re: Techniques/Procedure for front tilt and focusing

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamD View Post
    I think I should clarify something.

    When I try to get very deep fields of view in focus, I'm not expecting that to happen at f/5.6. I am using f/5.6 however to get things close. Once I see I've got the foreground in sharp focus after tilting the front standard AND getting the mid-ground AND background reasonably close, I then stop down to find the place it all comes together. This typically happens by f/32.

    Anyway, my problem is just consistently being able to do that with deep fields of view.
    Fred Newman put out a video on camera movements several years ago, and it's one of the best I've seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JU-eHpk97Y

    His recommendation is to focus on the near, tilt to the far, repeat up to 3 times, which should bring both into focus, then stop down for anything in the middle.

  8. #18
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: Techniques/Procedure for front tilt and focusing

    Basically it sounds like you want to do something this the image below. This was a long time ago, but my arms has not got any shorter so my finger might be close to 4 feet from the lens. I probably would do a little better now keeping the upper corners from going beyond the image circle (I could have used more back tilt), but that was not important to the over-all image, so no big deal. But the image was set up to take full advantage of tilt -- instead of trying to match tilt with a scene, if that makes sense.

    Depending on your lens and set-up, you might be trying to get something that is not possible.

    I had a heck of a good time making the image...taken in the early morning after camping on top of Sentinal Dome with Yosemite Falls booming across the Valley. 4x5/150mm, 16x20 print. Mistaking the Map for the Territory
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Mistaking the Map for the Territory, YNP_16x20.jpg  
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  9. #19

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    Re: Techniques/Procedure for front tilt and focusing

    Quote Originally Posted by grat View Post
    Fred Newman put out a video on camera movements several years ago, and it's one of the best I've seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JU-eHpk97Y

    His recommendation is to focus on the near, tilt to the far, repeat up to 3 times, which should bring both into focus, then stop down for anything in the middle.

    Hi all. Yeah this is the exact same technique I was taught and have been using. In fact, after reading this thread and trying different techniques, I've come full circle back to this method. My problem is more apparent to me (after reading this thread and reading Ansel's book again).

    My problem is not technique, it's skill and practice. I'm doing it right, just not always doing it well. BUT, I can see what mistakes I'm making, and thus not committing those mistakes to perminent record!!

    Anyway, this has been a super helpful thread to me. Thank you all for helping me out.

  10. #20

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    Re: Techniques/Procedure for front tilt and focusing

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    Basically it sounds like you want to do something this the image below. This was a long time ago, but my arms has not got any shorter so my finger might be close to 4 feet from the lens. I probably would do a little better now keeping the upper corners from going beyond the image circle (I could have used more back tilt), but that was not important to the over-all image, so no big deal. But the image was set up to take full advantage of tilt -- instead of trying to match tilt with a scene, if that makes sense.

    Depending on your lens and set-up, you might be trying to get something that is not possible.

    I had a heck of a good time making the image...taken in the early morning after camping on top of Sentinal Dome with Yosemite Falls booming across the Valley. 4x5/150mm, 16x20 print. Mistaking the Map for the Territory

    Yes, this is exactly what I'm trying to do. It's tricky!!

    One of my problems is trying to do too much with tilt. I was trying to get the middle area AND background to come into focus using tilt.

    I'm now finding that I have to draw an imaginary line from my nearest point of focus to the upper most far off point of focus. That's the line the tilt needs to control. Then, yes, stop down to bring it all together. Another problem I have, and it's more about optical limits, is when I have a Saguaro cactus sticking up above that imaginary line. Can't really deal with that but it causes a decision to be made.

    Good stuff....

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