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Thread: Seeking a newer 4x5 camera for mostly landscape

  1. #31

    Re: Seeking a newer 4x5 camera for mostly landscape

    Not to buck trends here but personally I can't imagine a better value proposition than the Chamonix line up. The Linhofs are very nice, but they're also very heavy. Most LF shooters I know are not actually beating their cameras against rocks if they can help it. While I can't pound nails with my Chamonix's, I don't find them to be under-built in any way. Plus you can use the $ you save on a superior ground glass, or other accessory.

    But then I love wood field cameras, and have since I got my first Deardorf V8. Now I have a Chamonix 5x7N and 8x10V, and I'm quite happy with them.

  2. #32

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    Re: Seeking a newer 4x5 camera for mostly landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Other then time or expense there is no reason For your Technika not having the proper cams. Service makes them very quickly for them very quickly for the V and Master.
    Thanks for this info, I will see if this counts in Holland too. My experience with a Technika is not very recent either.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    May 1999
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    550

    Re: Seeking a newer 4x5 camera for mostly landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by gmfotografie View Post
    Thank you so much for all your answers!
    I already have a 4x5 camera - a charmonix 45N-1
    My goal is to get a more precise camera... Maybe I am only imagining this?!
    Setting the Base or the Front is always a little bit tricky to get an absolute well aligned groundglas and/or lens.
    Many good suggestions here. There is no perfect camera, so amongst the more "precise" options, you know you still have to accept some trades:
    --Some lightweight monorails have positive detents, rigidity, precise and ample movements. Great if you don't mind about compactness and protection.
    --Shell type foldings and press cameras have good detents (some even better than monorails), are compact, protected and much faster to use. In trade, lower decentering abilities and shorter bellows.
    But I bet you already know all this.


    So let's talk about my experience:

    Once in the field, I sometimes prime speed (ease of use) and compactness, accepting a small penalization in weight and decentering abilities. My choice are press and metal field cameras. Reality is that I can live with the classic wide to short-tele setup in a vast majority of cases, with zero back tilt. Front swing or tilt can be performed, or a limited lens shift. Most of my field shots are taken this way.

    But there are times that I want bellows versatility (to use really long or short lenses), back tilt or swing, and -very rare-, *extreme* decentering abilities. So I have then to use a lightweight/field type monorail. I think your Chamonix could suit this needs.

    So one is not substitute of the other.

    I understand the choice will depend on your specific intentions. Maybe it's time of press/metal field options.

  4. #34

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    550

    Re: Seeking a newer 4x5 camera for mostly landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by otto.f View Post
    ... My personal experience with a used Technika is that the rangefinder mostly does not work properly, the plates to guide to rangefinder are not there or not the right one for the lenses you’ve got. So that makes him less quick too. A Master Technika or a V is a very nice package to travel with but in practice they are not that fast is my experience...
    I'd say the Technikas are both field and press type cameras. I never handhold it, nor use the rangefinder but the GG, so mine is a superb field camera, and not heavier than the others I have.
    Cannot be faster; just press a button, open the bed and slide the front standard up to the lock. Ready to shoot. Think that the bed can be closed with a (small) lens attached.

    Of course still not perfect... Back movements, shortest lenses (although depending on the version).

  5. #35

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    Re: Seeking a newer 4x5 camera for mostly landscape

    Go directly back to the lens choice and image goals, that essentially determines what cameras can be chosen.

    Of the folder cameras used over the decades, the Canham DLC has been the best by FAR. This is after owning and using both 4x5 & 5x7 Linhof metal folders, Toyo 810M (remains the fave 8x10 folder), Dorf, Wisner, and many other wood folders. None remain today, only the Sinar system remains.

    Opinion of Linhof remains, limited capability, excessively expensive for what it actually is and offers. The 6x9 technikardan is better than the 4x5 technikardan, light weight yes, due to it's light weight lacks sufficient stability and rigidity compared to a camera like Sinar Norma.

    No long own any folder style cameras as how LF images made today do not require light weight, portability and ....


    Bernice

  6. #36

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    Re: Seeking a newer 4x5 camera for mostly landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    The 6x9 technikardan is better than the 4x5 technikardan
    How, exactly? Apart from scale the two are of virtually identical design, the main difference being that the 6x9 has more limited movement capabilities. If you mean in terms of weight then the 4x5 is only 600g more (3.4 Kg vs 2.8 Kg), so hardly significant, especially when you get the ability to shoot both formats with the one larger camera.

  7. #37

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    Re: Seeking a newer 4x5 camera for mostly landscape

    Both are built essentially on the same sliding bottom rail with near identical standard movement mechanisms. The 6x9 being physically smaller is subjected to lower forces and smaller lenses often used for 6x9. The 4x5 variant requires larger rear standard frame, more weight. Lens accommodations are the same lens board for both except lenses for 4x5 tend to be larger for 4x5 which increased the stress-loading on the front standard.

    Put a 12" Kodak Commercial Ektar in Ilex# 4 or 14" Brass Goerz APO artar in Ilex# 4 on that TK, rack it out.. not so stable.. or very possible not stable enough for comfort. The 6x9 version will not likely need to deal with BIG lenses like this and again the whole set up is physically smaller. Copal# 3 shutter on smaller lenses is typically the limit for the TK lens board.

    Yes, test used the TK decades ago with the idea it would be the absolute ideal replacement for a Technika.. In real world use, the Technika proved to have better stability trading off the limitations inherent with a Technika.

    Then there is $ and availability of accessories which are often pricy and not easily available. Given all that, Linhof stuff no longer interest me in any way as there are better value cameras and better cameras available today with better value.

    In comparison, friend purchased a 4x5 Canham DLC new. We took it out for an extensive test run.. Worked GREAT for a light weight folder.

    One hybrid worth mentioning, Toyo VX. It is a GOOD balance between a monorail -vs- folder.


    Bernice

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    How, exactly? Apart from scale the two are of virtually identical design, the main difference being that the 6x9 has more limited movement capabilities. If you mean in terms of weight then the 4x5 is only 600g more (3.4 Kg vs 2.8 Kg), so hardly significant, especially when you get the ability to shoot both formats with the one larger camera.

  8. #38

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    Re: Seeking a newer 4x5 camera for mostly landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    How, exactly? Apart from scale the two are of virtually identical design, the main difference being that the 6x9 has more limited movement capabilities. If you mean in terms of weight then the 4x5 is only 600g more (3.4 Kg vs 2.8 Kg), so hardly significant, especially when you get the ability to shoot both formats with the one larger camera.
    We are talking about the S models, not the original TK models.
    Several differences between the 69 and 45 other then film size.
    45 has a double recessed bellows much longer then the 69 yet collapses as tightly. Both have an optional rail to stabilize it with extreme extensions. The original TK had standards formed from one piece bent in an L shape that had to be perpendicular in 2 planes. The S has a 3 piece standard made from 2 straight extrusions and a joiner block. The original TK had a much smaller size front L then the rear L. The S has a much beefier front standard made from the same extrusions as the rear standard. The 45 has much more movements then the 69 although both have the same amount of tilts and swings.

  9. #39

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    Re: Seeking a newer 4x5 camera for mostly landscape

    Roman Laranc is a Linhof landscape shooter.
    Take a look:
    https://www.romanloranc.com/
    Admittedly it's the Indian, not the arrow, but the results he gets with his Linhof are pretty inspirational.
    I steal time at 1/125th of a second, so I don't consider my photography to be Fine Art as much as it is petty larceny.
    I'm not OCD. I'm CDO which is alphabetically correct.

  10. #40

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    Re: Seeking a newer 4x5 camera for mostly landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    We are talking about the S models, not the original TK models.
    Several differences between the 69 and 45 other then film size.
    45 has a double recessed bellows much longer then the 69 yet collapses as tightly. Both have an optional rail to stabilize it with extreme extensions. The original TK had standards formed from one piece bent in an L shape that had to be perpendicular in 2 planes. The S has a 3 piece standard made from 2 straight extrusions and a joiner block. The original TK had a much smaller size front L then the rear L. The S has a much beefier front standard made from the same extrusions as the rear standard. The 45 has much more movements then the 69 although both have the same amount of tilts and swings.
    Yes I realise the S models were being discussed. I'm also aware of the other differences you mention. I just found the statement that the 6x9 version is "better" than the 4x5 to be odd, and really quite subjective; it all depends what one's priorities and requirements for the camera are, after all.

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