View Poll Results: Which one is Howtek?

Voters
5. You may not vote on this poll
  • 20171104_0014_Working_20200327_3200dpi.jpg

    0 0%
  • 20181104_0014_Master_202001011_20201025_Working_4000dpi

    5 100.00%
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 47

Thread: Another Comparison of the Howtek VS V850

  1. #31

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    216

    Re: Another Comparison of the Howtek VS V850

    I'd seen Daniel's project before, but not yours. I'm taking a shortcut by using one of the cheap chinese CNC kits and re-purposing it.

  3. #33
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Fond du Lac, WI, USA
    Posts
    7,589

    Re: Another Comparison of the Howtek VS V850

    Yep, that's a good option.

    Daniel's design was compact and very sturdy, as the system clamped the lens in place.

    I used a Velmex 4000 unislide to position the camera + lens system. That was more complex and expensive, but it allowed me to change out lenses. I tried about 20 different lenses, and I ended up preferring a Rodagon D 75mm 1x lens at 1x magnification. I expect there are better options now...but even with the ancient 55 Nikkor, the system outperformed an Epson flatbed, and that was tested using resolution targets and stepwedges for density measurements. My system outperformed the Epson by about 1 stop more dynamic range. Today's cameras can likely do significantly better, and that's not even considering multiple exposures and different exposure levels. I tested that back then too, and it gave great results, but it did require a lot of extra exposures and processing.
    May tomorrow be a better day.

  4. #34
    Alan Klein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    New Jersey was NYC
    Posts
    935

    Re: Another Comparison of the Howtek VS V850

    Quote Originally Posted by grat View Post
    True, in all regards. However, the v800/850 holders are still "stepped"-- 5 steps instead of 2 (and an irritating tendency to shift when I'm loading film), but the screw-type adjuster on the (for instance) betterscanning holder, is superior. Unfortunately, he's still apparently either catching up, or incommunicado.

    In the case of the Howtek, it's got multiple sensors for each color, and (I assume) uses the rotating drum to pass the negative across each sensor, meaning each 1/4000th of an inch of negative passes over three sensors, instead of the Epson which uses 1 sensor to decode all 3 colors at once (which can be done, but it's effectiveness is entirely based on the algorithms that are trying to recreate that color based on three (four-- RGGB) adjacent grayscale readings).

    The native resolution of the v800/850 appears to be 3200 PPI (in the central high resolution band), with it appearing to be able to do a "pixel shift" type maneuver to reach 6400 PPI. 12,800 PPI is just making up (interpolating) pixels to go in between the 6400 PPI results. If it did three pixel shifts (one for R, G and B) it might produce a more detailed scan, but otherwise, the effect of the bayer demosaic process will reduce the resolution slightly. By scanning at a higher resolution and "binning" the results down to a lower resolution, Steve is effectively raising the signal-to-noise ratio of his scans, and throwing out some of the less reliably interpolated results.

    In theory.

    My biggest gripe with the state of film scanning in 2020 is that the difference in RAW processing between my 2007 Canon EOS 30D and my 2019 EOS 90D is truly breathtaking-- the difference in sensor processing between the Epson v700 from 2006 and my Epson v800 from 2015 (purchased this year) is... Not much.
    Which is the best setting for the V850? In my test of it vs a Howtek 8000, I did the scans on my V850 using Epsonscan. The first scan was done at 4800 ppi reduced to 4000 for the first comparison set. The second scan was done at 2400 as I found for some reason it was sharper after sharpening than the 4800 scan. That could be an error on my part. Both scans were adjusted to set the clipping points only.

    Here's the complete thread for the comparison of the v850 vs Howtek 8000.
    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...ghlight=howtek

  5. #35
    Alan Klein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    New Jersey was NYC
    Posts
    935

    Re: Another Comparison of the Howtek VS V850

    Did I have to reduce the 4800 to 2400 first? to 3200? something else?

  6. #36

    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    216

    Re: Another Comparison of the Howtek VS V850

    I honestly don't know myself. I've been doing various tests, trying to reduce the number of variables, but I've lacked *ahem*... focus.

    Personally, the variables for me are holder height (reasonably sure I've got that one nailed down), scan resolution, down-sampling, and film quality-- and right now, I'm not convinced my negatives are of sufficient quality to make definitive judgments.

  7. #37
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    2,491

    Re: Another Comparison of the Howtek VS V850

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    Very interested in your glass plates

    all aspects

    any light you may cast is welcome
    Gonna start with buying some already made from Jason Lane. Then start making my own. I have like 20 plates. The hard part will be coming up with an interface from camera to scope and of course focus.

  8. #38
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    2,491

    Re: Another Comparison of the Howtek VS V850

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Did I have to reduce the 4800 to 2400 first? to 3200? something else?
    The way to reduce the ppi is to do a 2x2 binning. This is different than resizing in photoshop or other programs. 2x2 binning turns 4 pixels into a super pixel. Reducing the file using photoshop or epson scan will yield inferior results. To my knowledge only Vuescan offers this option unless you use a different program.

  9. #39
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    2,491

    Re: Another Comparison of the Howtek VS V850

    Quote Originally Posted by grat View Post
    I honestly don't know myself. I've been doing various tests, trying to reduce the number of variables, but I've lacked *ahem*... focus.

    Personally, the variables for me are holder height (reasonably sure I've got that one nailed down), scan resolution, down-sampling, and film quality-- and right now, I'm not convinced my negatives are of sufficient quality to make definitive judgments.

    Focus is number one. From there, scan at the highest resolution you can do and then do a 2x2 bin before saving. That takes a 6400 to 3200. Vuscan is the only program I know that can do that right now. If you have to save the file and use a different program, you will need to keep the file just south of 4gb for a tif file. Do not compress, even if you use lossless.

    Don't buy into the scan only for the size/s you plan to print out. The smaller the dpi the more information you throw away. Which is not true for binning.

  10. #40
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    2,491

    Re: Another Comparison of the Howtek VS V850

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Steve, you mentioned 50". Would you be able to tell the difference for let's say a 30" print between the scanners?
    I believe you could. Have not tried it yet.

Similar Threads

  1. Comparison of HowtekHiResolve8000 scan and Epson V850 scan
    By Steven Ruttenberg in forum Digital Hardware
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 2-Oct-2020, 20:02
  2. Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners
    By Alan Klein in forum Digital Hardware
    Replies: 124
    Last Post: 29-Aug-2020, 15:34
  3. Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850
    By Steven Ruttenberg in forum Digital Hardware
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 22-Jul-2020, 00:46
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 13-Dec-2015, 09:31
  5. comparison between Epson V700 and Howtek D4000
    By zhengjdc in forum Digital Hardware
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 28-Jun-2011, 12:26

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •