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Thread: Visualization, Pre and Post?

  1. #21
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: Visualization, Pre and Post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    so we want to be nonredundant which is a word...
    Can I just be dundant? Or is that just the same as BTDT?
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  2. #22
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Visualization, Pre and Post?

    Vaughn, nobody here tells you what to do


    My goal is to get Back to the Future

    ASAP

    but my vehicle is in deep storage

    web Wormhole Coffee Shop by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr


    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    Can I just be dundant? Or is that just the same as BTDT?
    wear mask or NOT

    is ???

  3. #23

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    Re: Visualization, Pre and Post?

    If we back up from having fun with grammar and Deloreans, I think that most of us "visualize" simply from experience. The majority of us spot meter scenes, place high or low values, and know that if we over-expose and under-develop we reduce contrast, and if we under-expose and over-develop we increase contrast. Similarly, those of us with experience know that if we encounter a scene of red, green, and grey, on B&W film everything will photograph as grey, so we either use filters, or simply by-pass the scene. Much of this required explanation in the days of Adams, Weston and White, but by now it is what I call "accumulated knowledge." And finally, the majority of us recognize an image that, to use phrases from earlier posts, "catches us," or "resonates with us," or shouts, "take me." This is not to say that all of the above does not need to be learned, either through workshops, books, or experience, but it does suggest that it does not need labels such as "visualization" when "Photography 101" would do the trick.

  4. #24
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: Visualization, Pre and Post?

    I'll have to disagree with most of that, Peter. Visualization is just a small portion of Photo 101, and we use language as a tool for learning...so words are important in teaching. "Most" of us here are still working on the reconition part, even tho we do tend towards older photographers here.
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  5. #25

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    Re: Visualization, Pre and Post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    I'll have to disagree with most of that, Peter. Visualization is just a small portion of Photo 101, and we use language as a tool for learning...so words are important in teaching. "Most" of us here are still working on the reconition part, even tho we do tend towards older photographers here.
    Vaughn, I thought that what I wrote was very similar to what you posted in #5, only in my words. Where are we differing?

  6. #26
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    Re: Visualization, Pre and Post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lewin View Post
    Vaughn, I thought that what I wrote was very similar to what you posted in #5, only in my words. Where are we differing?
    Just in nuance, probably. Visualization and the Zone System do not operate on the concepts of over/under exposure or development...rather, to determine the desired amount of both to create a negative that will yield a print that echoes one's experience or desire of tonality for the image. Most photographers (or users of cameras) have rudimentary visualization skills, and many do gain greater skills with experience, most do not. Practice only makes perfect if the practice is perfect and learning takes place.


    Visualization can be an important tool in one's photography -- used as part of the whole process from seeing to print. But after being around students of photography for most my life, visualization does not come naturally to all -- perhaps the equipment we on this forum use and our experience level seems to indicate otherwise. White was teaching -- once one learns the lesson, one can move on...but the lesson still needs to be taught to others and we can't toss out the word, 'visualization'.
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  7. #27
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Visualization, Pre and Post?

    Yes, Tin Can.... Back to the Future. Hasn't anyone besides me noticed how the wacko scientist in that movie strongly resembled Minor White? And that's the answer! If we have a DeLorean time machine, we can change pre to post, or post to pre, provided we don't crash it somewhere in between.

  8. #28

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    Re: Visualization, Pre and Post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    All of the above/none of the above. Unless all of this kind of thing becomes pretty much an instinctive act, it's just a set of Lego blocks. I find it hard to believe that even Minor White thumbed his way through his own manifesto methodology before actually tripping the shutter; there's just too much sheer Gestalt in his work to conclude that. Even one of his prime students remarked that "he wished Minor would just shut up", because so much more was learned just watching him actually take a picture than listening to him repeating all the voices of little green men inside his head. I suspect Minor fiddled around in the darkroom quite a bit to find the best rendering of a negative, just like all of us, which might or might not have turned out the same as he had "previsualized". I really don't care. I get way more from simply looking at one his exceptional prints than bothering to read every overcomplicated diecast dogma he wrote.
    All that Zone System talk is just ballpark anyway - getting a versatile neg where the ball is at least in bounds either side. No need for mystical connotations about each segment of eight grays, or examining the entrails of an owl each morning like Minor did.
    What did James Russell Lowell say about Poe . . . something like, three-fifths genius, and two-fifths shear fudge? I learned the Zone System by studying Minor White's (et al) book, which is reasonably practical. But, I sure didn't get too wrapped up in his more philosophical writings.

  9. #29

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    Re: Visualization, Pre and Post?

    Did you see Alan Ross' announcement for a visualization workshop... not too expensive as far as workshops go.

  10. #30
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Visualization, Pre and Post?

    Is that a pre- announcement, or a post- announcement?

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