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Thread: Disastrous Consequences (solved: fog with Intrepid lensboard)

  1. #41

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    Re: Disastrous Consequences (solved: fog with Intrepid lensboard)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    Cost to water jet cut FR4 or aluminum is about the same. Since the FR4 is coated, finishing cost would be very similar. Very possible raw material cost would be more for the FR4 as non-copper plated FR4 is not a standard item.
    Says who? Grainger and McMaster-Carr both sell GR10-FR4, uncoated, for about $10.70/sq ft. for roughly the same thickness as a lensboard.

    Their aluminum prices are twice that for the same thickness in aluminum sheet, and around $15 /sq. ft. for aluminum plate.

    That's all retail-- I assume bulk/wholesale purchase would be cheaper, but I would also expect the relative pricing to be about the same.

    If I were Max, I think I'd feel somewhat insulted that someone felt I hadn't done my homework properly before making such a choice.

  2. #42

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    Disastrous Consequences (solved: fog with Intrepid lensboard)

    Quote Originally Posted by grat View Post
    Says who? Grainger and McMaster-Carr both sell GR10-FR4, uncoated, for about $10.70/sq ft. for roughly the same thickness as a lensboard.

    Their aluminum prices are twice that for the same thickness in aluminum sheet, and around $15 /sq. ft. for aluminum plate.

    That's all retail-- I assume bulk/wholesale purchase would be cheaper, but I would also expect the relative pricing to be about the same.

    If I were Max, I think I'd feel somewhat insulted that someone felt I hadn't done my homework properly before making such a choice.
    Since you can at least get 4 boards from one square foot sheet, the cost difference is either $2.67 in FR4 or $5.35 in aluminum sheet or $3.75 for plate. None of that has a strong bearing on the cost. The real cost difference must come from the manufacturing of the part depending on the material, not from the material cost alone. I think thatís what Max was trying to say.

    What I wonder is what tests have they done to ensure longevity. I canít see these coated FR4 boards lasting year after year. But their business model is not necessarily that of say Linhof, which become heirlooom.

    To each itís own. For the cost, I go with Luland. Options exists if your willing to look or listen.

  3. #43

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    Re: Disastrous Consequences (solved: fog with Intrepid lensboard)

    Designing the front standard to use a "common" existing lens board size (e.g. Technika) would be my suggestion. They are common, easily available, and interchangeable with other 4x5 cameras.

  4. #44
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Disastrous Consequences (solved: fog with Intrepid lensboard)

    The camera is compatible with Sinar lens boards, which are very common. Critics have had their say. Why not leave it at that? If not, the end result will likely be another manufacturer who won't post here.
    May tomorrow be a better day.

  5. #45

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    Apr 2020
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    Re: Disasterous Consequences

    Indeed, Intrepid is mailing me a replacement lens board and a box of film for my troubles. (BIG troubles). Right now, I'm just glad that I figured this out. Still, I love my new Intrepid Mark 4 camera and my whole 4x5" set up. Got to get out there and get some other shots. Here's the only shot from the backpacking trip that came out because I used a different lens. Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #46
    Gary Beasley's Avatar
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    Re: Disastrous Consequences (solved: fog with Intrepid lensboard)

    Makes me wonder why the copper clad FR4 was not used as the metal would make the board quite light tight especially if the extra coating is used.

  7. #47

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    Re: Disastrous Consequences (solved: fog with Intrepid lensboard)

    If Sinar lens boards fits this Intrepid camera, simply use them and move on.

    Batting about saving a few $ here or there is absurd given the overall cost and resources required to produce images using a view camera.

    For comparison, Sinar lens boards have a light trap groove all around the camera side of the lens board. Last versions of these Sinar lens boards are cast aluminum with the Sinar logo on the lens side of the board. The light trap groove is part of the casting with precision machined registration areas on each of the four corners.

    The Sinar camera standard has a matching raised area that fits into the lens board groove to act as a very effective light trap with precision lens board registration to the camera standard.

    IMO, anything less is not going to be reliable or have the degree of precision needed for some view camera images that demand this degree of precision and stability from a view camera.


    Bernice

  8. #48

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    Re: Disastrous Consequences (solved: fog with Intrepid lensboard)

    If you are in the UK and want a new lens board ffordes.com has pattern Linhof fit boards made in aluminium for £19. I bought three and they fit and work perfectly. I don't think the potential downsides of the Intrepid boards is worth saving £4 for. That's literally one sheet of 4x5.

  9. #49

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    Re: Disastrous Consequences (solved: fog with Intrepid lensboard)

    Quote Originally Posted by grat View Post
    Says who? ....

    If I were Max, I think I'd feel somewhat insulted that someone felt I hadn't done my homework properly before making such a choice.
    As someone who has designed and have produced both pcb's and metal parts as a commercial process I have done similar homework repeatedly.

    I won't comment on wood as yes, that might be troublesome. But why anodising the alu and then laser engraving it? Every lensboard in alu I have seen is just painted and screen printed (if that). The Sinar one I have here is painter alu with a sticker logo! Something that can be done in the same shop compared to anodising and laser engraving which would mean transporting between shops, with each time packing and for the laser engraving, positioning as well. I can imagine that this is expensive! Just getting it through a painting tunnel and then a screen print would be far cheaper and better (fit for this purpose).

    I really don't get the idea of comparing FR4 with vinyl coating which I find "cheap" to anodised and laser engraved which I find "premium".

    Being honest I really like the Intrepid cameras. I think they are a great idea. Still sorry I didn't get one of the first all wood design, just because I like that one. But I really cannot see the reasoning behind using FR4, certainly not in its unclad version.

    Oh BTW, if 15 is the double of 10.70, then I need a new calculator as well....
    Expert in non-working solutions.

  10. #50

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    Re: Disastrous Consequences (solved: fog with Intrepid lensboard)

    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc View Post
    As someone who has designed and have produced both pcb's and metal parts as a commercial process I have done similar homework repeatedly.

    I won't comment on wood as yes, that might be troublesome. But why anodising the alu and then laser engraving it? Every lensboard in alu I have seen is just painted and screen printed (if that). The Sinar one I have here is painter alu with a sticker logo! Something that can be done in the same shop compared to anodising and laser engraving which would mean transporting between shops, with each time packing and for the laser engraving, positioning as well. I can imagine that this is expensive! Just getting it through a painting tunnel and then a screen print would be far cheaper and better (fit for this purpose).

    I really don't get the idea of comparing FR4 with vinyl coating which I find "cheap" to anodised and laser engraved which I find "premium".

    Being honest I really like the Intrepid cameras. I think they are a great idea. Still sorry I didn't get one of the first all wood design, just because I like that one. But I really cannot see the reasoning behind using FR4, certainly not in its unclad version.

    Oh BTW, if 15 is the double of 10.70, then I need a new calculator as well....

    Sometimes we just read too fast. He wrote "Their aluminum prices are twice that for the same thickness in aluminum sheet, and around $15 /sq. ft. for aluminum plate."
    So he's comparing 3 items: FR4, aluminum sheet, and aluminum plate. The sheets is 2X ~ $21.40, the plate is $15.

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