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Thread: Different versions of Slide scanned on Howtek

  1. #31

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    Re: Different versions of Slide scanned on Howtek

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    What's the expression? If it's working don't fix it.

    A side question. Is anyone including me every going to realize whether its in Adobe RGB or sRGB, or ProPhoto, or whatever. How many colors do you need in a print or display? Isn't this sort of pixel peeking where it's not really going to make a differences other than to purists? I mean as long as the prints don't have a color cast or some other discoloring and are exposed correctly, it's going to look good.
    If you just want to display something on a web page, no, it probably doesn't matter, although it probably should.

    If you actually want your colors to look right when you print on a digital printer, it is absolutely important.

    Here's an interesting video showing soft-proofing on Affinity Photo-- even if you don't use Affinity, it's worth watching, because it does a very good job of demonstrating why color spaces actually matter.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb8_yxRK7gA

  2. #32
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Different versions of Slide scanned on Howtek

    Quote Originally Posted by grat View Post
    If you just want to display something on a web page, no, it probably doesn't matter, although it probably should.

    If you actually want your colors to look right when you print on a digital printer, it is absolutely important.

    Here's an interesting video showing soft-proofing on Affinity Photo-- even if you don't use Affinity, it's worth watching, because it does a very good job of demonstrating why color spaces actually matter.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb8_yxRK7gA
    Doesn't soft proofing have more to do with lightness and darkness of the print rather than color quality?

  3. #33
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Different versions of Slide scanned on Howtek

    No. It will show you whether or not your medium for displaying your image is capable of render g the color,saturation, etc of your image as you intended.

    For example, an image done in Prophoto will have a lot of out of gamut colors when printing. If you just printed it, the print would look horrible and nothing like your image on screen. Soft proofing allows you to make adjustments so what you pri t looks as close to what you want.

  4. #34
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Different versions of Slide scanned on Howtek

    What gamut would you work in if all your printing was done in an outside lab?

  5. #35

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    Re: Different versions of Slide scanned on Howtek

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Doesn't soft proofing have more to do with lightness and darkness of the print rather than color quality?
    I linked the video not so much for the soft-proofing info (although that's hugely useful), but it was one of the clearest demonstrations of how different color spaces affect the appearance of an image.

    The fundamental issue is that there is no one-to-one mapping between the visible spectrum and the various bits-per-channel used to represent colors-- mapping 486nm (cyan) for instance, to a specific RGB value for 8/10/14/16 bits per channel isn't as straightforward as it sounds. Worse, everyone wants a standard that suits their purposes-- Adobe RGB, unless my memory has failed, was developed for desktop publishing back in the 1990's. It was an enhancement to the existing sRGB space. Neither covers the full CIELAB spec.

    In early days, we had GIF which had exactly 256 colors to choose from-- and if you had a display that only handled 256 colors, your display would shift to that palette in order to display a GIF properly (xv, anyone?).

    The color space is primarily for translation between display environments-- my sRGB space image will look approximately the same on my digital camera, my monitor, and your monitor, as long as all three are moderately close to "calibrated". If you want to print, or display on HDR, or process in other ways, it may be important to have both the right color space, and the right ICC profiles for your destination.

  6. #36
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Different versions of Slide scanned on Howtek

    Ideally, you want a space just large enough to contain the color extremes in your image. Bigger color spaces and smaller color spaces have the same number of colors, which is determined by the bit depth. What changes with color space size is the extremes of any given color that can be represented in the space. This means that the steps between colors are bigger in a bigger space.
    May tomorrow be a better day.

  7. #37

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    Re: Different versions of Slide scanned on Howtek

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Ruttenberg View Post
    ...an image done in Prophoto will have a lot of out of gamut colors when printing.
    Not neccesserely. As an example convert an image from sRGB into Prophoto. They will look identical. And "soft-proof" identical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Ruttenberg View Post
    If you just printed it, the print would look horrible and nothing like your image on screen.
    It may look just fine printed even if some colors are OOG. It all depends on the quality of printer profile, Color Management engine and rendering intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Ruttenberg View Post
    Soft proofing allows you to make adjustments so what you pri t looks as close to what you want.
    I find soft-proofing mostly useless , especially soft-proofing for prints on matte paper.

  8. #38

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    Re: Different versions of Slide scanned on Howtek

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    What gamut would you work in if all your printing was done in an outside lab?
    I would request them to provide a copy of their printer profile and convert my images into that profile. Then ask them to print as-is with no color management applied.

  9. #39
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Different versions of Slide scanned on Howtek

    Quote Originally Posted by SergeyT View Post
    Not neccesserely. As an example convert an image from sRGB into Prophoto. They will look identical. And "soft-proof" identical.


    It may look just fine printed even if some colors are OOG. It all depends on the quality of printer profile, Color Management engine and rendering intent.


    I find soft-proofing mostly useless , especially soft-proofing for prints on matte paper.
    So what's your procedure to get the best print?

  10. #40

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    Re: Different versions of Slide scanned on Howtek

    Try to get it right at the time of exposure...If light is not great or something else is "not quite" - better to pass on it - PS is not going to fix that (or I don't know how).
    Critically review the image on light table (almost does not apply to color neg , unfortunately)
    Scan if I like what I see. Either in scanner RAW or with just White Point set.
    Bring the scan into PS.
    Convert into working space if/as needed.
    Dust cleanup (right over the image , I do not need to keep the dust on a separate layer in my already large file)
    Edit to my liking using adjustment layers. If all falls into places during exposure then I can go with as few as 1 layer for either contrast or color balance or two for both. Other times it could be as many as 5-6 layers , mostly for making local tone adjustments to even out the luminosity across the image and make the relationship between tones look natural\pleasing (may not apply to B&W as there is nothing natural in B&W to begin with).
    Saving in PSD.
    Making a copy of the image. From this point all the work below is done on the copy.
    Flaten.
    Selective sharpening.
    Resizing to desired print size in max printer output resolution. For initial test prints it is usually 4x6 in. [Optional: If the final print is 16x20 or larger and I am happy with how the 4x6 turned out I would make another test print at 8x10 in to be certain everything is right before I waste any paper and ink on a large print.]
    Selective sharpening. The effect is best assessed at 50%, 25% or 12.5% magnification.
    Conversion from working space (Lab or RGB) into printer's RGB (Relative Colorimetric or Perceptual, whatever works best for particular image) . For B&W it is always Relative Colorimetric. AT this point the image should look almost as it would print... I may check the histogram to see if there is any clipping. Slight clipping in one or two channels is usually ok. If clipping is too severe I may go back one step and apply a curve or desaturate a bit and then convert into printers RGB again.
    Sending to printer with no color management (color management disabled) in both PS and printer driver.
    Assessing the test prints in good light (day light on a sunny day) as well as in other less optimal conditions (artificial light, gloomy day light, etc). Usually I am lucky to nail it on the first try. Sometimes it takes another round of tweaking the layers and printing. In rare cases when I am not certain what the image needs I just leave it and move on to another one, until the right time comes...

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