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Thread: Fujinon C 450mm F/12 .5 (or another) to replace Fujinon T 400mm F/8 for Lightweight

  1. #31

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    Re: Fujinon C 450mm F/12 .5 (or another) to replace Fujinon T 400mm F/8 for Lightweig

    Iíll say it again,

    I think itís better to stick to a 300mm for 4x5 in the field. But if your photography is such that you absolutely cannot tolerate something that short, then for the Chamonix I would recommend the 400T, you can use it without extensions and with shorter bellow draw, and so you will get good shots most of the time if youíre careful. Just suck it up and carry the weight.

    Donít spend more than the cost of a 4x5 Chamonix on a 450C lens that you need to operate with a long top hat or a long bellow draw with extensions. You will likely be disappointed with many shots because of the loss of stability.

  2. #32

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    Re: Fujinon C 450mm F/12 .5 (or another) to replace Fujinon T 400mm F/8 for Lightweig

    Ah, quit bickering kids, tool for the job, and all that stuff... ;-) They still haven't come out with the Swiss Army knife with the 12" Bowie knife blade, so choose your tools as needed...

    I have been on a Tele binge for the last few years now to be able to "reach out and touch" out of reach urban architectural details, so need to get closer... All of my shooting formats time and again get used for different situations, from a DSLR APS-C (with a handy crop factor), my "normal" lens 35mm with a 300mm, a 2x3 baby SG with a barrel 400mm Dally true telephoto, my 4x5 Graflex Super D with 190-300mm barrel lenses, and a monorail converted 4X5/5X7/WP Noba studio camera (with 24" bellows draw and Packard shutter) to use with odd no-name scientific, aerial, and process lenses etc... Each rig gets almost equal use for my applications...

    Using shrinking formats with longer lenses has been a big boon for me, as I can choose the smallest rig to take to site and get out... A recent series I am working on is shooting sections of crumbling image high billboards call for longer lenses... The Graflex (with 6X6 back) has been very interesting to shoot as it tends to behave like a "bloodhound" sniffing out an image, and I learn to follow it where it takes me (with happy surprises)...

    A couple of tips I have found are perspective "flattening" for my formats becomes pronounced after about 260mm FL, and perspective distortion becomes much more manageable (without movements) with longer lenses, and you can often "fake" corrections by very slightly tilting camera to correct one dominant vertical line, and the others will usually have a natural looking dynamic tilt to them...

    This is a lot of fun to do!!!

    Steve K

  3. #33

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    Re: Fujinon C 450mm F/12 .5 (or another) to replace Fujinon T 400mm F/8 for Lightweig

    Guys:

    Thank you all. Love the back-and-forth and appreciate the passion. Wow! and do you folks have some! This is great. Thanks especially for all the advice, and willingness to stick your individual necks out. I think most of us are multiformat in some ways even if we might think of ourselves or our preferred image making as falling into one category like LF. I love shooting just about any camera, but LF is more fun even just taking one shot even if only every now and again. Conclusion as I'm reading this and as I think of it is to keep the 400T as a specialist with the longest practical reach on my Shammy, but pickup a 300mm for more common use. FWIW, I don't run lenses longer than 200mm telephoto in 35mm or any format simply because they scale out and/or price out in the BIGLY department. Been there, done that, and it ain't really my thing. If I need to, I'll rent one in that sort of longer than 200mm (35 format equivalent) length.

    Last night, I weighed my LF carry kit - everything all in from tripod, head, film holders, meter, camera, cable releases, etc. and adding up the whole, I'm looking at 20 pounds - all in. Not including "lunch", "water", etc. so far 'cause that doesn't really apply, but that's not going to break the mule's back (me being the mule). But as much as its not the end of the world at 80 degrees, but when its 95... it's time for something else. Yes, you can offload a bunch of that in a very defined approach for a single shot or two, knowing EXACTLY what you want, but getting below 10 pounds.... probably not. Tripod and especially the geared Manfrotto head.... that's a real paperweight. Some weights... I don't begrudge... and until someone plops a ton of money on me for an "air ride" type of geared head, it'll do as the right tool for the job. The rest is fungible.

  4. #34

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    Re: Fujinon C 450mm F/12 .5 (or another) to replace Fujinon T 400mm F/8 for Lightweig

    Quote Originally Posted by roscoetuff-Skip Mersereau View Post
    Guys:

    Thank you all. Love the back-and-forth and appreciate the passion. Wow! and do you folks have some! This is great. Thanks especially for all the advice, and willingness to stick your individual necks out. I think most of us are multiformat in some ways even if we might think of ourselves or our preferred image making as falling into one category like LF. I love shooting just about any camera, but LF is more fun even just taking one shot even if only every now and again. Conclusion as I'm reading this and as I think of it is to keep the 400T as a specialist with the longest practical reach on my Shammy, but pickup a 300mm for more common use. FWIW, I don't run lenses longer than 200mm telephoto in 35mm or any format simply because they scale out and/or price out in the BIGLY department. Been there, done that, and it ain't really my thing. If I need to, I'll rent one in that sort of longer than 200mm (35 format equivalent) length.

    Last night, I weighed my LF carry kit - everything all in from tripod, head, film holders, meter, camera, cable releases, etc. and adding up the whole, I'm looking at 20 pounds - all in. Not including "lunch", "water", etc. so far 'cause that doesn't really apply, but that's not going to break the mule's back (me being the mule). But as much as its not the end of the world at 80 degrees, but when its 95... it's time for something else. Yes, you can offload a bunch of that in a very defined approach for a single shot or two, knowing EXACTLY what you want, but getting below 10 pounds.... probably not. Tripod and especially the geared Manfrotto head.... that's a real paperweight. Some weights... I don't begrudge... and until someone plops a ton of money on me for an "air ride" type of geared head, it'll do as the right tool for the job. The rest is fungible.
    In my experience trying to minimize the load is indeed an expensive proposition unless youíve taken that approach since the beginning. May require new head, tripod, lenses, and even camera. You can look at what you have and see whatís the best way to shave 1/2 lb (and then another one, and so on) in the most economical way but it is a whole new rabbit hole. 20 lbs is actually not a bad starting point. But definitely I think itís better to wait for a bit lower temperature unless itís a short walk.

  5. #35

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    Re: Fujinon C 450mm F/12 .5 (or another) to replace Fujinon T 400mm F/8 for Lightweig

    20 lbs all in is definitely not bad and totally doable. Even my flyweight outfit consisting of a Toho FC45-X, lenses from 90mm to 300mm, a couple of Grafmatic backs, and the rest of the "loot" probably weighs in at about 20. Much easier to carry long distances than my Arca-Swiss outfit!

  6. #36

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    Re: Fujinon C 450mm F/12 .5 (or another) to replace Fujinon T 400mm F/8 for Lightweig

    Weight can be lowered by loosing the geared tripod head and a tripod with a riser column. If done properly, better stability can be had with lower weight and not much difference in set up ability.

    Indeed, it is all a set of trade-offs. IMO, any focal length longer than 300mm/12" on a 4x5 field folder becomes questionable for many of the reasons discussed. Once down to 300mm / 12" focal length number of modest sized lenses are reasonable. Do remember crop down is another way to get there.

    Not a back packer and don't produce those types of images making the tools applied quite different as they are intended for a very different need and print goal.
    Beyond that, there is a lot more to image making than just view camera or why image making skills acquired from the discipline of using a view camera can be applied to a wide variety of image making endeavors.


    Bernice

  7. #37
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Fujinon C 450mm F/12 .5 (or another) to replace Fujinon T 400mm F/8 for Lightweig

    Steve, my Swiss Army Knife has a fold-out miniature gasoline chainsaw, a winch for pulling the truck out of ditches etc, a set of feeler gauges just to make sure my Norma front rise is precisely equal above both column rods, an automatic pepperoni slicer for sake of campfire cooked pizza, all kinds of nice things like that. But I never actually carry that particular Swiss Army knife backpacking because it is simply too bulky. In fact, for my first decade of 4x5 use I only owned a single view camera and single lens. Later I diversified. But even now I can do pretty much anything I need with just a 200M and 300M along as an ultralight option to 4x5 travel with my little Ebony folder, or alternately, an even lighter Fuji 180A and 240A combination. On dayhikes with the Sinar Norma instead, I'll add a 360A and 450C, which pretty much remain in a completely different pack, into which I can quickly switch out an inner container of 8x10 folder vs 4x5 monorail kit as needed. That's the nice thing about versatile long lenses with ample coverage.
    Bernice - the only thing worse for long lens stability than a ballhead is a riser column. Those should have been outlawed back in the Middle Ages, because they're just another form of Medieval torture, at least for outdoor photography. It's not like working with fast strobe exposures in a studio. Achieving lower weight can be far more efficiently done by getting rid of the tripod head entirely, which has been my custom for over three decades now in terms of view camera applications or long MF telephotos. And any serious gear head is likely to weigh more than a field camera itself.

  8. #38

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    Re: Fujinon C 450mm F/12 .5 (or another) to replace Fujinon T 400mm F/8 for Lightweig

    Drew, Just do not understand the rational with wanting the lowest weight set up then wanting a geared tripod head with a riser column.

    IMO, the riser column is not needed, adds weight and significantly reduces stability as it is a serious wobble point in the camera support system.
    As for ball heads, gave up on them for view camera decades ago. This includes the "dual action" variety where one axis of ball movement can be fixed or adjusted.


    A good wood or composite surveyor's style tripod-No riser column with a Sinar pan-tilt with the Sinar Norma style rail clamp works good for a Sinar.
    Reduce weight, loose the geared tripod head, loose the riser column.


    Bernice

  9. #39
    Angus Parker angusparker's Avatar
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    Fujinon C 450mm F/12 .5 (or another) to replace Fujinon T 400mm F/8 for Lightweight

    If we are straying onto the subject of weight loss, I recently discovered the joy of the leveling base for RRS tripods.

    https://www.reallyrightstuff.com/ta-3-lb

    This is possibly the best of both worlds, low weight and some possibility of limited leveling without a ball or geared head. Iíve tried it with 4x5, not sure about 8x10 yet.

    P.S. While the base weights 342g you remove the existing plate, so my guess is the net is under 250g extra.

  10. #40

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    Re: Fujinon C 450mm F/12 .5 (or another) to replace Fujinon T 400mm F/8 for Lightweig

    The cinema and video folks have been using ball leveling heads with no riser column (not possible with some of the really BIG cameras) for decades.
    Been using a modified Bolex leveling head no column riser for many years now with the Sinar Pan tilt. Flat works good.

    Ball heads and riser column are mostly ok for small cameras, once camera stability is a must and camera size weight goes up, riser column and ball heads are mostly not gonna work ok.


    Bernice

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