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Thread: Distance optimization for '60s-vintage Super Angulons and Symmars?

  1. #1

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    Distance optimization for '60s-vintage Super Angulons and Symmars?

    Dan or anybody, I've spent many hours searching these many links unsuccessfully trying to find the design magnification range for my six lenses: 3 f8 Super Angulons (90/121/165) & 3 f5.6 Symmars (180/240/360), all made in the mid- to late-60s. I'd imagine all the SA's have the same range and all the Symmars have their same range. My interest is in close-up work likely not closer than 1:1, and as a retired dinosaur reluctant to packing the Sinar Normas around any longer and not wanting of buy any more lenses, could you possibly point me to any links (if they exist) that provide this information? TIA.
    Last edited by Jerry Bodine; 25-Aug-2020 at 12:19.

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    Re: Where to look for information on LF (mainly) lenses

    Gerry, none of your lenses was made to be used closeup. They're all best at some distance.

    I've heard rumors to the effect that lenses intended for use at distance are optimized for 20 something. Depending on the rumor, feet, focal lengths, ...

    If I had to use any of them I'd use one of the Symmars, whichever one's focal length is most convenient given your Normas' maximum extensions. If none is convenient, I'd grit my teeth, decide which focal length made best sense (extension @ 1:1 = 2f) and get an inexpensive process lens, probably a G-Claron, with more-or-less that focal length. That or a good grade of enlarging lens whose cells will fit a #0 or #1. Schneider made quite a range of them.

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    Re: Distance optimization for '60s-vintage Super Angulons and Symmars?

    Jerry, FWIW, the contemporaneous Schneider brochure for the Angulons/Super Angulons says nothing about it. However, the Symmar brochure has the following passage, with Google translation following:

    Der annähernd symmetrische Aufbau dieses viergliedrigen, zweimal verkitteten Sechslinsers bringt aber noch weitere Vorteile: Besondere Abbildungsqualität in den Nahbereichen bis etwa zum Abbildungsmaßstab 1:1.

    "The almost symmetrical structure of this four-part, twice cemented six-lens lens has other advantages: Special image quality in the close-up areas up to an image scale of 1: 1."

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    Re: Distance optimization for '60s-vintage Super Angulons and Symmars?

    Unless you are doing flat-field copywork, I'd just rack the lens out and start taking pictures.

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    Re: Distance optimization for '60s-vintage Super Angulons and Symmars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    Jerry, FWIW, the contemporaneous Schneider brochure for the Angulons/Super Angulons says nothing about it. However, the Symmar brochure has the following passage, with Google translation following:

    Der annähernd symmetrische Aufbau dieses viergliedrigen, zweimal verkitteten Sechslinsers bringt aber noch weitere Vorteile: Besondere Abbildungsqualität in den Nahbereichen bis etwa zum Abbildungsmaßstab 1:1.

    "The almost symmetrical structure of this four-part, twice cemented six-lens lens has other advantages: Special image quality in the close-up areas up to an image scale of 1: 1."
    Oren, this sounds good to me - many thanks. Apparently, you have a link to this info for both SA's and Symmars that I'd really appreciate having. It seems nearly all the bookmarks I have made for Schneider's links have dried up and are now sending me to the same current one that excludes any vintage lenses data.

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    Re: Distance optimization for '60s-vintage Super Angulons and Symmars?

    Jerry, use the list. If you don't know what the list is, ask.

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    Re: Distance optimization for '60s-vintage Super Angulons and Symmars?

    Apparently I'm living in darkness, so I'm asking.

  8. #8
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    Re: Distance optimization for '60s-vintage Super Angulons and Symmars?

    Jerry, take a look at the sticky thread at the top of this (Lenses) subforum - Dan has a link there to a very detailed list of lens information sources that he has continued to update and expand as he becomes aware of corrections and additions. It really is an extraordinarily valuable resource.

    Specifically re Schneider, Dan has included my tactic of trying the old URLs in the Wayback Machine. Sometimes you have to try a bunch of different crawl dates to find a page capture where the originally-linked pdfs are intact, but there's an amazing amount of stuff still there. At any rate, Dan has a Wayback Machine link that will take you to one of the incarnations of the old S-K "archiv" page. As there's no telling how long the Internet Archive, or any particular pages in it, will survive, it would be a good idea to download and save any of the linked files that you think might conceivably be of interest to you at any point.

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    Re: Distance optimization for '60s-vintage Super Angulons and Symmars?

    I've used four of those lenses extensively and still own a 121/8 SA. I did use the 180/5.6 Symmar for close-ups on the job, back in the late '80s. I never had any reason to complain about its sharpness, nor did the engineers an scientists I was working for. Later the company bought a 150/9 G-Claron, which was superb for close-ups and copying- although I never did a comparison against the Symmar. And all of my work with the Super-Angulons was at infinity or nearly so, where they did (and do) quite well.
    I'd just set up and start shooting... you may find that lens sharpness is fairly far down the list of things to worry about when working up close. Remember, "the perfect is the enemy of the good".
    On a not-quite side note, thanks to Dan and Oren for their contributions to "the knowledge".

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    Re: Distance optimization for '60s-vintage Super Angulons and Symmars?

    Thanks for the links via "the list." I found what I needed to know in the Symmar Brochure 1962, already in English. Here is a .png that isolates the info.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Symmar_Macro.jpg  

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