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Thread: Manufactured for Copal 0 and Copal 1 - Focal length

  1. #1

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    Manufactured for Copal 0 and Copal 1 - Focal length

    Hi,

    I was intrigued when I saw one or two identical focal lengths
    that were manufactured for Copal 0, and also for Copal 1.
    Both had a maximal aperture value of f/5.6

    What is the difference between two lenses made for shutters
    with different sizes, like Copal 0 and Copal 1?

    Is it because of format size? Because I think I have seen
    a 240mm. and 360mm. lenses in Copal 3, meant apparently
    for 8x10 format. And I have also seen the same focal
    lengths, but with a much more luminous aperture value like f/5.6,
    and I think, those are for smaller formats like 5x7, and 4x5.
    I might be wrong, however.

    Thank you in advance, kind regards,

    Ig

  2. #2

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    Re: Manufactured for Copal 0 and Copal 1 - Focal length

    It is to some extent a matter of mechanical design. Consider a lens whose glasses can be put in barrels that fit a #0 and that will work perfectly well in a #0. They can also be put in barrels that fit a larger shutter, e.g., #1 and will work perfectly well there too.

    These two shutters have the same tube length and different tube diameters and threading.

    Designer's choice. Not mine to reason why.

    It is also a matter of lens design type. Not all f/5.6 lenses are of the same general type.

  3. #3

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    Re: Manufactured for Copal 0 and Copal 1 - Focal length

    Hi Dan,

    Thank you for your message : )!!!

    It caught my attention because a 240mm can be used for 4x5", but also for 8x10".
    If the lens is for 8x10, seems like it will be more expensive and less luminous
    than the ones for 4x5".

    It was also interesting to me that some 120mm. lenses were made to be used with
    Copal 0 and Copal 1 and I wondered if there was any limitation from one to another,
    as the maximum aperture value for both was f/5.6

    Thank you again, kind regards!

  4. #4

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    Re: Manufactured for Copal 0 and Copal 1 - Focal length

    Quote Originally Posted by Ig Nacio View Post
    Hi Dan,

    Thank you for your message : )!!!

    It caught my attention because a 240mm can be used for 4x5", but also for 8x10".
    If the lens is for 8x10, seems like it will be more expensive and less luminous
    than the ones for 4x5".

    It was also interesting to me that some 120mm. lenses were made to be used with
    Copal 0 and Copal 1 and I wondered if there was any limitation from one to another,
    as the maximum aperture value for both was f/5.6

    Thank you again, kind regards!
    Almost all 90mm modern wide angle lenses that are as fast as 4.0 are in a 0 shutter except for the 90mm 4.5 Grandagon N which only fits a 1 shutter.

  5. #5
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    Re: Manufactured for Copal 0 and Copal 1 - Focal length

    The one example that comes to mind of a manufacturer offering a lens under the same name but in two different shutter sizes is the mysterious 120 mm Sironar-N, which had a very short sales run overall but within that period was offered in both Copal 0 and Copal 1, with correspondingly different dimensions for the optical cells, for reasons that remain obscure.

    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...ironar-N-120mm

  6. #6

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    Re: Manufactured for Copal 0 and Copal 1 - Focal length

    Hi Bob,

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Almost all 90mm modern wide angle lenses that are as fast as 4.0 are in a 0 shutter except for the 90mm 4.5 Grandagon N which only fits a 1 shutter.
    Thank you for your message : )!!!

    It would be interesting for me to see the 90mm Grandagon N!

    Kind regards!

  7. #7

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    Re: Manufactured for Copal 0 and Copal 1 - Focal length

    Hi Oren,

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    The one example that comes to mind of a manufacturer offering a lens under the same name but in two different shutter sizes is the mysterious 120 mm Sironar-N, which had a very short sales run overall but within that period was offered in both Copal 0 and Copal 1, with correspondingly different dimensions for the optical cells, for reasons that remain obscure.

    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...ironar-N-120mm
    Thank you for your message : )!!!

    Very interesting thread, thank you for sharing it!

    Can you tell a bit more about your experience with the 120mm.?
    How do you like it so far?

    Have you tried the one in Copal 0?

    What have you enjoyed the most photographing with this focal
    length?

    Thank you again, kind regards!

  8. #8

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    Re: Manufactured for Copal 0 and Copal 1 - Focal length

    Hmm. 90 mm and shorter f/8 Super Angulons were initially sold in #00 shutters. Later on the same lenses were sold in #0.

  9. #9

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    Re: Manufactured for Copal 0 and Copal 1 - Focal length

    Hi Dan,

    Thank you for your message : )!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Hmm. 90 mm and shorter f/8 Super Angulons were initially sold in #00 shutters. Later on the same lenses were sold in #0.
    That is very interesting! So when lenses are offered with a larger aperture value a smaller shutter can be offered with them.

    Thank you again, kind regards!

  10. #10

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    Re: Manufactured for Copal 0 and Copal 1 - Focal length

    Quote Originally Posted by Ig Nacio View Post
    That is very interesting! So when lenses are offered with a larger aperture value a smaller shutter can be offered with them.
    In general, no. A lens whose cells will work in a shutter of size x can probably be mounted in a larger shutter. The larger shutter will cost more, weigh more and will probably have a slower fastest speed. What's the point?

    The #00 is a special case. Most, not all, #00s lack a "T" speed. None has what's called, variously, a blade arrestor, press focus and preview. They're better suited to 35 mm cameras than to LF. Schneider must have had reasons for mounting shorter f/8 Super Angulons in #00s. From my narrow parochial point of view, they made a mistake.

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