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Thread: How does rear tilt affect front tilt?

  1. #31

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    Re: How does rear tilt affect front tilt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Invest a few dollars on the Rodenstock pocket Scheimpflug/depth of field calculator and it will all become crystal clear. Fits a shirt pocket, no batteries and will also give you exposure corrections and the proper focus point between near and far points.
    Or as I was taught when I started with LF a year or so ago, focus on the farthest object you want in focus, note the position of the standard on the rail, do the same with the nearest object. The difference between the two (in mm) when multiplied by 5 gives you the closest aperture to ensure sharpness between both points. (this is the same btw if you're using tilt or swing). A 3mm difference gives f16, a 7mm one f42, and so on. I did go out and buy the Rodenstock pocket calculator a month ago, and it ends up being pretty close to the "5x the offset in mm for minimum f stop" rule.

    More or less.

    Always a good idea to stop down and check on the GG just to make sure if it's a critical shot. Considering how much work to carry, set up, dial in and take the shot, not to mention the current cost of film and processing, I think every shot is critical!

  2. #32
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: How does rear tilt affect front tilt?

    Quote Originally Posted by CreationBear View Post
    ...One thing I'm curious about, given what I've seen of your subjects, is how often you use tilt/swing--I'm still a little chary given how often I have vertical elements (i.e. trees, and lots of 'em) in the frame.
    The LF camera (4x5) that I came of age with, so to speak, had marks to zero the swing of the front and back standards, but no other indents. So 'zeroing out' the camera was never really done -- it was done on the scene itself. Out of habit I did not to think in terms of using swings and tilts, but just putting the standards in the right place...which might be zeroed or twisted like a pretzel. All the info I need is right there on the GG. Wonderful. So my answer is that I use all the movements all the time, but most of them are used at their zero points.

    Of course my other cameras all have nice indents...easy to zero everything while setting up the camera...it is nice to start that way. The biggest factor in using back tilt is if it is base tilt or axis tilt. I have used base tilt, but it is a bit of a PITA having to do a major refocus every time.
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  3. #33

    Re: How does rear tilt affect front tilt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    So my answer is that I use all the movements all the time, but most of them are used at their zero points.
    Ha, nicely said--a bit like the character in the Moliere play who's delighted and amazed to learn that he's been speaking prose all his life!

  4. #34

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    Re: How does rear tilt affect front tilt?

    Thanks to Doremus for elaborating the focusing method, and to 6x6 for the variation. Very efficient. Somehow I had missed the link to the relevant page on the home page.
    Last edited by Ulophot; 11-Aug-2020 at 05:42.
    Philip U.

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  5. #35

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    Re: How does rear tilt affect front tilt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Sorry, I'm still confused. The bold part. Do you refocus a second time? Doesn't that eliminate the original far focus and tilt focusing you just completed if you set the focus in the middle between the far and near focus points? I don't understand this procedure.
    Alan,

    Applying swing/tilt is not "focusing" for optimum depth-of-field/aperture. It's manipulating the position of the plane of sharp focus. Yes, you have to bring two (or more) points on the desired plane into focus to get it positioned correctly, but then there are almost always other objects that do not lie in the plane of sharp focus. The real "focusing" is finding the nearest and farthest of these objects that you want rendered sharply and finding the focus spread between them, placing the focus halfway between the extremes, and then stopping down accordingly (because you have a table that tells you what aperture is best for what focus spread).

    Clear now?

    Doremus

  6. #36

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    Re: How does rear tilt affect front tilt?

    Quote Originally Posted by CreationBear View Post
    ... One thing I'm curious about, given what I've seen of your subjects, is how often you use tilt/swing--I'm still a little chary given how often I have vertical elements (i.e. trees, and lots of 'em) in the frame.
    I'll chime in here too.

    When you have lots of vertical elements in the frame that are among the closest foreground objects, then tilting is not a viable option; you'll just throw the tops of those trees (or whatever) out of focus.

    However, if you have a situation where you have a stretch of flat foreground before the taller objects, then often the best solution is to use a slight bit of tilt to get the nearest foreground object and the top of the nearest vertical thing (tree, building, etc.) in focus. Then you find the farthest point you want in focus (distant horizon, etc.) and use the difference between those two extremes as your focus spread. Tilting like this usually will get you a little smaller focus spread than just leaving the standards parallel.

    As for swing; I use it a lot when photographing in canyons to get the near wall in focus, i.e., using a point on the wall as one of my focus points for applying the swing and then choosing a distant point halfway between the distant extremes and making sure I stop down enough for the opposite wall. I also use swings a lot in architectural work to either make sure horizontal lines are parallel or to emphasize convergence.

    Best,

    Doremus

  7. #37

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    Re: How does rear tilt affect front tilt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    ... I have used base tilt, but it is a bit of a PITA having to do a major refocus every time.
    All my field cameras have base tilts front and rear. I'm pretty fast now finding the final position of tilt-to-focus. I always start with the focus point at the bottom of the ground glass (top of the image), focus that and then tilt while watching both my top and bottom focus points. When they are equally out-of-focus, I'll tighten down the tilt and refocus on the bottom point again. Then I'll check my top point. If I'm lucky, it will be in focus (usually not, though). If not, then I'll tweak the focus one way and see what happens. If the top point gets sharper, I'll tilt a tiny bit more in that direction, refocus the bottom and check again. If it goes out of focus, I'll tilt a tiny bit in the opposite direction, refocus and then check. One or two of these small iterations gets me to a final point quickly.

    It's not as fast as axis (or asymmetrical) tilts, but, with practice, only slightly longer.

    I wrote a little primer on dealing with base tilts some time ago if anyone is interested.

    Best,

    Doremus

  8. #38

    Re: How does rear tilt affect front tilt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    I wrote a little primer on dealing with base tilts some time ago if anyone is interested.
    A link would be most appreciated... Otherwise, another great set of observations regarding tilt w/ verticals in the frame...I've been planning a few streamside shots here in the GSMNP and wondering how I could negotiate the DOF of the 5x7.

  9. #39

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    Re: How does rear tilt affect front tilt?

    Quote Originally Posted by CreationBear View Post
    A link would be most appreciated... Otherwise, another great set of observations regarding tilt w/ verticals in the frame...I've been planning a few streamside shots here in the GSMNP and wondering how I could negotiate the DOF of the 5x7.
    Here's the pdf. Hope it helps.

    As far as tilt with verticals in the scene goes, it's often better to just stop down. The only amount of tilt you can ever get in a scene is the tilt that gets the nearest foreground object you want sharp and the top of the nearest vertical sharp. More that that is counter-productive.

    Best,

    Doremus
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #40
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: How does rear tilt affect front tilt?

    Can we go over an actual focus scene? I believe I set the asymmetrical axis line on the top of the barn than tilted the back standard to focus the near fence. I then used f22 because of what other said they usually use.
    How would you focus and tilt this one and figure the f stop in a better way?
    Craig House 1 by Alan Klein, on Flickr

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