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Thread: 4x5 lenses: telephoto and portraiture

  1. #11
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 lenses: telephoto and portraiture

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Sawyer View Post
    Just for anyone who doesn't know, a telephoto design gives the angle of view of a longer lens at a shorter focusing range. So a 400mm telephoto might focus at infinity with around 250mm of bellows.
    How do you know which lens is a telephoto design?

  2. #12

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    Re: 4x5 lenses: telephoto and portraiture

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    How do you know which lens is a telephoto design?
    It is very often mentioned or indikated in the name. Like Tele Xenar or Nikkor-T.

  3. #13

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    Re: 4x5 lenses: telephoto and portraiture

    Since I also have the Chamonix 45H-1 I was intrigued.
    As mentioned the bellow extension is 360mm, and there are no extension boards.
    Today I have the Fujinon T 400mm. It works well and is sharp, but is big and weights a bit. And is cumbersome to use with front tilt and swings because of the Tele design.

    What about trying to use my G-Claron 210/9 and G-Claron 240/9 as convertibles (both the modern plasmat version)? They are much smaller and lighter, and easier to use.
    Would it be possible? And what would the result be like. Could it be useful?

    The common wisdom on the net seems to be that the G-Clarons (both the new and old versions) can be used as convertibles. You get about 1.75 times in focal length and lose 2 stops. There seems to be no big difference in focal length depending if you use the front or rear group. What changes is the bellow draw. With the front group it's about 1,5 times and with the rear group 2 times the original focal length.

    So I decided to do a small test.

    G-Claron 240mm f9

    Using it as a convertible produces a focal length of about 420mm. Exactly what I was looking for.
    With the rear group you need a bellow draw around 480mm which doesn't work on the 45H-1.
    But with the front group you just need 350mm or thereabout. And after testing I can confirm that you just can reach infinity focus mounted on a normal lens board. I could focus to somewhere around 20 meters. With an extended lens board this could work well. And the lens is small and light and would not be that much unbalanced on the lens board. Not as the Fujinon 400 anyway.

    So what did it look like? I took a a test shot on my neighbor's house. Not very exiting but lots of detail.
    Focused on the the chain on the wall.
    Shoot on FP4+. Scanned on an Imacon Felxtight Precision II. No sharpness added.

    G-Claron 240mm @f22
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Link to full res file (right click to download)

    G-Claron 240mm with only front group for about 420mm @f45
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Link to full res file (right click to download)

    G-Claron 210mm f9

    Using it as a convertible produces a focal length of about 370mm. Not as good as the 240, but fair.
    With the rear group you need a bellow draw around 420mm which doesn't work on the 45H-1.
    But with the front group you just need 310mm or thereabout. It should work well for many situations.
    So what did it look like?

    G-Claron 210mm @f22
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SHEET0149.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	110.7 KB 
ID:	206126
    Link to full res file (right click to download)

    G-Claron 240mm with only front group for about 370mm @f45
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SHEET0150.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	104.5 KB 
ID:	206127
    Link to full res file (right click to download)

    Make up your own mind if you think it's working.
    Me, I'm not going to use it as my first landscape option, corners are not really that good. But it could work as a light weight trek option.
    And it's sharp in the center, so for portraits it could work well.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    May 2006
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    1,602

    Re: 4x5 lenses: telephoto and portraiture

    Alan,

    You have two wide angle lenses and one normal lens of 150mm. So your real question is how to choose a longer lens that is suitable for portraits. It does not have to be a telephoto design. Is that correct?

    Your 150mm lens should be a good one if you shoot whole body or environmental portraits and if you don't mind your portraits are as sharp as your landscapes. To get head and shoulder shots, a longer lens in the range of 210mm to 240mm will give a more flattering feel. With 350mm bellows draw, you have plenty of choices.


    One point to get started is to spend some time looking at the portrait threads in this forum. There are thousands of wonderful portraits with 45 cameras. Zero in the ones you like and see what lenses were used. There are reasons that some lenses are more favored than others.

  5. #15
    David Schaller
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    Williamstown, MA
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    729

    Re: 4x5 lenses: telephoto and portraiture

    Quote Originally Posted by lassethomas View Post
    Since I also have the Chamonix 45H-1 I was intrigued.
    As mentioned the bellow extension is 360mm, and there are no extension boards.
    Today I have the Fujinon T 400mm. It works well and is sharp, but is big and weights a bit. And is cumbersome to use with front tilt and swings because of the Tele design.

    What about trying to use my G-Claron 210/9 and G-Claron 240/9 as convertibles (both the modern plasmat version)? They are much smaller and lighter, and easier to use.
    Would it be possible? And what would the result be like. Could it be useful?

    The common wisdom on the net seems to be that the G-Clarons (both the new and old versions) can be used as convertibles. You get about 1.75 times in focal length and lose 2 stops. There seems to be no big difference in focal length depending if you use the front or rear group. What changes is the bellow draw. With the front group it's about 1,5 times and with the rear group 2 times the original focal length.

    So I decided to do a small test.

    G-Claron 240mm f9

    Using it as a convertible produces a focal length of about 420mm. Exactly what I was looking for.
    With the rear group you need a bellow draw around 480mm which doesn't work on the 45H-1.
    But with the front group you just need 350mm or thereabout. And after testing I can confirm that you just can reach infinity focus mounted on a normal lens board. I could focus to somewhere around 20 meters. With an extended lens board this could work well. And the lens is small and light and would not be that much unbalanced on the lens board. Not as the Fujinon 400 anyway.

    So what did it look like? I took a a test shot on my neighbor's house. Not very exiting but lots of detail.
    Focused on the the chain on the wall.
    Shoot on FP4+. Scanned on an Imacon Felxtight Precision II. No sharpness added.

    G-Claron 240mm @f22
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SHEET0151.jpg 
Views:	25 
Size:	108.3 KB 
ID:	206124
    Link to full res file (right click to download)

    G-Claron 240mm with only front group for about 420mm @f45
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SHEET0152.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	99.4 KB 
ID:	206125
    Link to full res file (right click to download)

    G-Claron 210mm f9

    Using it as a convertible produces a focal length of about 370mm. Not as good as the 240, but fair.
    With the rear group you need a bellow draw around 420mm which doesn't work on the 45H-1.
    But with the front group you just need 310mm or thereabout. It should work well for many situations.
    So what did it look like?

    G-Claron 210mm @f22
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SHEET0149.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	110.7 KB 
ID:	206126
    Link to full res file (right click to download)

    G-Claron 240mm with only front group for about 370mm @f45
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SHEET0150.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	104.5 KB 
ID:	206127
    Link to full res file (right click to download)

    Make up your own mind if you think it's working.
    Me, I'm not going to use it as my first landscape option, corners are not really that good. But it could work as a light weight trek option.
    And it's sharp in the center, so for portraits it could work well.
    Thank you for posting this informative test. I had forgotten that the G-Claron lenses could be used as convertibles.

  6. #16
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 lenses: telephoto and portraiture

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo Zhang View Post
    Alan,

    You have two wide angle lenses and one normal lens of 150mm. So your real question is how to choose a longer lens that is suitable for portraits. It does not have to be a telephoto design. Is that correct?

    Your 150mm lens should be a good one if you shoot whole body or environmental portraits and if you don't mind your portraits are as sharp as your landscapes. To get head and shoulder shots, a longer lens in the range of 210mm to 240mm will give a more flattering feel. With 350mm bellows draw, you have plenty of choices.


    One point to get started is to spend some time looking at the portrait threads in this forum. There are thousands of wonderful portraits with 45 cameras. Zero in the ones you like and see what lenses were used. There are reasons that some lenses are more favored than others.
    Hugo, Since I shoot landscapes mainly, I was looking for a medium telephoto. I was thinking I could use that as a fall back for portraits on the rare occasion I would need it for portraits. Based on that, what would be a good one for me? Just to calrify point, are portraits lenses less sharp than telephone and other lenses? Would I use a portrait lens for landscape shots?

  7. #17

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    Re: 4x5 lenses: telephoto and portraiture

    Nikkor-T 270/6.3 or the NIkkor-T 360/8 would be good choices for both portrait and landscape. Both would work with the limited bellows length, no problem.

  8. #18

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    Re: 4x5 lenses: telephoto and portraiture

    Quote Originally Posted by EdSawyer View Post
    Nikkor-T 270/6.3 or the NIkkor-T 360/8 would be good choices for both portrait and landscape. Both would work with the limited bellows length, no problem.
    Those are good choices, or the already mentioned Fujinon T 400/8.
    Here on the camera focused to infinity.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #19
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 lenses: telephoto and portraiture

    If you get closer than 4 or 5 feet to your subject, elements closer to the camera will grow in size in the picture. That's one of the reasons that many prefer longer lenses for head and shoulders portraits.
    May tomorrow be a better day.

  10. #20

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    Re: 4x5 lenses: telephoto and portraiture

    Just so. And most sitters will be more comfortable (leading to better portraits) if the camera (and thus the photographer) is not right on top of them.

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