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Thread: 8x10 Camera Musing

  1. #21
    Unwitting Thread Killer Ari's Avatar
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    Re: 8x10 Camera Musing

    Thanks, Peter. Good to know.
    I've been on this Misura kick for a while, and spoke with another forum member who owns one and loves it.
    It's an F-line 8x10, but lighter and with a few less movements on the back end.
    After having owned so many cameras, and tried even more of them, I realized that money be damned, I have to give it a shot.
    They have a great reputation, and life is short, so I'll be looking hard at it next week.

  2. #22
    Mark Darragh's Avatar
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    Re: 8x10 Camera Musing

    Hi Ari

    I’ve found Arca-Swiss cameras to be very well engineered and intuitive to use. They pack quite neatly too, even compared with a folder. I run the carriers and frames of my Arca 8x10 on a 15cm rail which then slides into a 50cm telescopic rail. The setup is quicker than Wista 8x10 I used to own.

    The 8x10 Misura is compact but lacks rear tilt and swing. The F-Line cameras allow indirect movements which are very useful for extra front rise. I often use this when photographing in forests.

    If you decide to go down the Arca-Swiss path, I would suggest looking at the Metric version. I’ve run the 8x10 in both F Classic and Metric versions and have found the configuration of the Metric standards to be more rigid.

    All the best with your search

  3. #23
    Unwitting Thread Killer Ari's Avatar
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    Re: 8x10 Camera Musing

    Thank you, Mark, I will definitely look into it more closely.

    The Misura has rear fall/rise and shift, but it has 100mm of front rise to make up for that.
    Given what and how I shoot, this suits me well, and it makes for a lighter camera that also sits lower in the back, so some extra stability.

    Nonetheless, I'm going to look again at what the entire F-line offers, including the Metric version.
    A stronger front standard is also quite important, so I really wish the Arca website had more information about the various models.

  4. #24

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    Re: 8x10 Camera Musing

    I never looked at any of the modern cameras. Holy crap, $7000 for an Arca-Swiss that is mostly bellows and a few CNC pieces of metal?! That's more than I've paid for every camera I own, and two motorcycles. That's got 6 moving parts, my 1979 Honda has 12,000 parts and cost 1/10th! Sorry, but that is just crazy expensive. Probably because they have one guy that makes one camera when one buyer orders one.

    Me, I'd make due with something else before I'd pay thousands of dollars for some cloth bellows that someone folded and made for $400 and a rail and standards made for probably another $400. There is markup for high tech (Tesla electric car), for craftsmanship (Monteleone mandoline), or for exotic materials like dimodinium or platypus fur. This....you are paying for "art" and "brand". Like the $4.3 Million photo of grass: https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/im...EeGG8flrKQYvAA


  5. #25

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    Re: 8x10 Camera Musing

    Arca Misura cameras have been kind of off my radar. But having recently seen a photo of one, I'm wondering if perhaps I have an "earlier" version:

    See "Spare Parts" 8x10: https://www.largeformatphotography.i...23#post1525823

    Mine has only rise on the rear standard. (Not even shift.) I count this as a positive, because the 8x10, rear format frame is very sturdy on a rail. All other movements are on the front standard. Rise is a little limited in this configuration. So, I purchased a 3" rise extension from Arca Swiss. It works fine on this older camera.

    You want to photograph architecture; do you need a bag bellows? A downside, I think my only hope of for a bag bellows is to find an 8x10 regular bellows for this camera on EBay (for the frames), and then have it converted by Custom Bellows in the UK.

    Other than the Misura perhaps, I would not want to purchase a new Arca 8x10. I had the Classic front and rear function carriers for years, and I currently have metric carriers. I don't think that either is quite up to the task of supporting 8x10. They work fine for 6x9 and 4x5, and I might consider them for 5x7. But, not for 8x10.

    I thoroughly enjoy using this camera. It's so simple, it feels more like using a 4x5, versus an 8x10.

  6. #26
    jp's Avatar
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    Re: 8x10 Camera Musing

    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    I never looked at any of the modern cameras. Holy crap, $7000 for an Arca-Swiss that is mostly bellows and a few CNC pieces of metal?! That's more than I've paid for every camera I own, and two motorcycles. That's got 6 moving parts, my 1979 Honda has 12,000 parts and cost 1/10th! Sorry, but that is just crazy expensive. Probably because they have one guy that makes one camera when one buyer orders one.

    Me, I'd make due with something else before I'd pay thousands of dollars for some cloth bellows that someone folded and made for $400 and a rail and standards made for probably another $400. There is markup for high tech (Tesla electric car), for craftsmanship (Monteleone mandoline), or for exotic materials like dimodinium or platypus fur. This....you are paying for "art" and "brand". Like the $4.3 Million photo of grass: https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/im...EeGG8flrKQYvAA
    It's too expensive a camera for me too, but for small volume well designed craftsmanship, it's within the realm of reasonable and that's why I don't buy new... Sorta like a new Goldwing will be more $ than an economy car, or a new Harley bagger will be more than a luxury car.
    The camera probably has many more moving parts than you estimate, and when things are anodized or powder coated on a small scale, that's very laborious and/or expensive to do safely. The software and training to operate the CNC machines is expensive, and the CNC machines are expensive if their production ability is not fully utilized. Hard to pay for all the expensive machinery if you're just cranking out a few cameras. It does make good sense for bigger businesses operating rows of machines more than one shift a day.

  7. #27

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    Re: 8x10 Camera Musing

    OK, the only 8x10 cameras I've owned have been Deardorff V8's. For architectural work, I used a Sinar F2 4x5 and still have 3 of them. That said, I do own a Sinar P 8x10, but have not used it. Bought it in parts because the price was right! I figured that if Dorffs were used by comercial photographers for longer than I've been on this planet to make hundreds of thousands of commercial photos, it was probably good enough for me, and it has been! Frankly, it's the only camera I've needed and I feel the best camera that's been made. No, it doesn't have geared movements or detents, or shifts or all the gimicks newer cameras have, but to me, that would be like wanting to put frets on a Cello! I've never run out of movements in its use. 32" of bellows lets me use a 30" Artar with a top hat as close as 27'! Handles lenses on a no. 5 Universal without breaking a sweat. This one is a user camera that has been re-finished, but it was well done, and its in really good shape. I put a borosilicate ruled ground glass which I prefer to the original soda-lime ground glass. I did put a new Deardorff bellows since I hated the replacement bellows it came with. You can see how nicely the bellows closes in the last shot. I keep a piece of cardboard on the bed to keep it from getting scratched. Some shots:

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  8. #28
    Unwitting Thread Killer Ari's Avatar
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    Re: 8x10 Camera Musing

    Thanks guys.
    I do have a full Sinar 4x5 and 8x10 kit in the basement, I just don't use it, and don't want to use it.
    The way I see it, I'm playing with architectural photography, I'm a hobbyist in that realm, so many cameras will work. So I don't want to shoot architecture, I already do, and I enjoy it, as it's a break from my regular work.
    Portraits, wet plate, and architecture (in that order): that's what the camera needs to do.
    The 810M was great for me in that respect until I didn't want to deal with the weight any more.
    I'm more interested at the moment in how much weight the Arca's front standard can support. If the Arca fails in this respect, I have other options to consider, though none are as appealing.
    And getting a system I've already used will just cause me to sell it again one day.

  9. #29
    Unwitting Thread Killer Ari's Avatar
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    Re: 8x10 Camera Musing

    As I said earlier, I have a friend who owns both the Misura and the Metric. I asked him which camera would be more capable of carrying a 3+ pound lens, here's his reply:

    The heaviest lens I have is a Nikon 300mm f/5.6 in a copal 3 shutter; it’s three pounds and some change. I’d have to give the advantage to the Misura with heavier lenses. The reason being is it has the simple, bombproof friction locks for all the camera movements instead of gearing. When you tighten those down they grab but good. And because the standards were also designed and made just for this camera, it’s more stout than the interchangeable multi-format approach design of the Metric.

    The Metric is absolutely not a slouch and it works great with the bigger lenses too! It will hold the big lens just as well, but the gearing is really working hard with the added weight. I can feel it taking a lot more force to turn the knobs. It holds the lens, it doesn’t move or creep afterwards, but I can tell it’s not entirely happy. Now go a bit lighter, say a two pound lens, and it’s perfectly content with the load. My Schneider 400mm f/5.6 Tele-Xenar is within a hair of two pounds and is fabulous on the Metric.

    And here’s where the roles reverse—with lighter lenses, I’d choose the Metric all day. The camera movements just glide so smoothly. A tiny bit of rise, a touch of front tilt is effortless and done in half a second. The Misura you have to loosen the knobs and then apply some leverage with your fingers on the standards to get things where they need to be, hold it (in the case of rise or fall) and re-tighten the knobs. 100% functional, but not as elegant.

    The Misura however is still my hands down favorite for 8x10. The Metric works for 8x10, but it’s stretching a bit too far with the huge ground glass frame perched on the relatively small interchangeable rear carrier, and requiring the maxing out of the rise on the front standard just to center up the lens with the ground glass. The modular interchangeability hurts the system there. The requirements, mass and size of 8x10 parts put a lot of leverage and stress on the components. The Misura was built for 8x10 and it shows in its extra sturdiness.


    Interesting, right?

  10. #30
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: 8x10 Camera Musing

    Depending on what you're doing with the super heavy lens, having an auxiliary lens support might be a good idea, whatever camera you go with.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

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