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Thread: Is the obsession with analogue gearing an obstacle to art?

  1. #31

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    Re: Is the obsession with analogue gearing an obstacle to art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobab View Post
    Let me try to explain myself.

    Analogue photography is slow, it is very slow (and expensive if not). I know to some extent that can be a good thing, as it forces one to slow down and think. However, I am starting to think that the amount of time spent on the peripherals of image taking (developing, printing, scanning) takes a lot of time and energy away from the bit which actually matters - the artistic aspect of the image making process.

    The printing can be as much an artistic aspect as the taking.

    I understand that much can be done to manipulate and alter an image during the developing and printing process. But so much more can be done, and far more quickly, with the digital process.

    Perhaps, if you're of a digital mindset. Perhaps not if you have more of an analog mindset


    And in addition to that is the instant feedback, and the far better scope for experimentation.

    As long as your 'puter don't crash

    I like shooting with analogue gear. Mainly because I like old mechanical objects. I don't know why, but I do. But I am starting to think that they hamper one's progress as as a photographer, let alone an "artist", which in my view, few people can ultimately become anyway (and I doubt I will ever get there myself).

    If you enjoy messing around with old mechanical objects, isn't that a good enough reason to mess around with old mechanical objects? As far as being an "Artist" goes, there are plenty of Artists, but very few who can make a picture that takes a viewer's breath away---and that seldom depends on the name of the camera or lens.

    The other issue is that, I am starting to think that using analogue gear when everyone else out there is using digital, is like taking a knife to a gun fight.


    An 8x10 on a tripod makes a better club than a Nikon D3500

    They can take thousands and thousands of photos, experiment, think about what want to communicate with their image and create. While it takes me a good part of my weekend to shoot, develop and scan a couple of rolls of 35 mm. Am I every going to produce interesting photos, when I am spending half my brain power worrying about what developer to use, at what temperature and for how long to get the effect I want (or mostly, just not ruin the negative).

    Is it more efficient to vet "thousands and thousands" of images to find "the one" or shuffle through a stack of negatives to find it---assuming you already knew what "the one" was supposed to look like?



    I have not been doing analogue for particularly long, but in the brief time I have been doing it, I have developed an uneasy feeling that this is not the best way if I really want to do something "creative" rather than just producing images which are poor knock offs of those which may have been ground breaking in the past. It really hit me when I watch an interview with Pedro Meyer on the "Art of Photography" youtube channel. I don't particularly like Meyer's photography, but I think I agree with what he says about art and photography.

    If you think digital works best for you, why mess with film? What are you hoping film will give you that's an improvement over digital? As far as knock offs of ground breaking images in the past, there is no shortage of knock offs of ground breaking images of the past taken with digital cameras. None! So hone your skills with film on Half Dome in homage to Ansel Adams, or chili peppers like Weston, but go out and find your own vision no matter the media----this is really important!
    PS: None of this has stopped me, as of this morning, acquiring my first LF camera. But I am a bit disheartened.



    Once you start looking at the world upside down and in reverse, strange things happen. There may be hope for you yet! Good luck!

    "I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White

  2. #32
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Is the obsession with analogue gearing an obstacle to art?

    Having the right equipment and supplies is absolutely necessary to being a real artiste. First of all, you need some green hair dye. Then you need an appropriate nose ring and belly button ring. Then you need a few bricks to throw at somebody's house, just to prove you're a rebel without a cause. And yes indeed, Paul, artistes now have all kinds of digital shortcuts so they don't need to learn to think at all. But there are also things they smoke that speeds up the ultimate objective of attaining a slow mind.

  3. #33

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    Re: Is the obsession with analogue gearing an obstacle to art?

    For me...the OP has it exactly backwards. ("For Me" being the key phrase). My LF film camera is a completely transparent conduit facilitating something approaching perfect symmetry between myself and that which I photograph...never perfect mind you but thats part of the draw that keeps me going. The analog wet darkroom is but a continuation of this process...with real, visible, palpable light, as the enlarger is indeed a camera (as opposed to electrons hidden in a computer) being the common denominator which assures faithful continuity of process which I can be a part of physically (because I can see it, sense it, roll with it, adjust it with my senses - because I am human and this makes human sense to me). But again...I've been doing this for over half a century...and this is what makes sense for me, and I am not judging or making assumptions here about what truly works for the OP. What works for me might not work for others, and thats fine. For me...digital technology just gets in the way and becomes a wall...a barrier to what I feel is my personal responsibility to respond truly and faithfully to what my subject is telling me. There is a world out there that has nothing to do with any kind of technology...and in this everything we attempt in trying to illuminate and communicate its significance is a compromise...this is a given. So in this, yes, I admit that even analog can never be completely faithful...but for me its as close as it gets to allowing me to continue my responsibility as an artist with a camera. For me digital just falls off the map completely, but again, analog is what I've evolved with...its in my DNA, and thats just the way it is.

  4. #34

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    Re: Is the obsession with analogue gearing an obstacle to art?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
    ...If using film, and film equipment makes the process between idea and realisation too lengthy, then perhaps photography is not the best route to expressing your artistic vision...
    Ignoring for the moment that "artistic" reference (meaningless word), this is completely unsupportable. Photography might very well be the best route to expressing the OP's vision. Digital, electronic photography. Only the OP can decide one way or the other.

  5. #35

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    Re: Is the obsession with analogue gearing an obstacle to art?

    My older boss pointed to a DSLR and said;

    That's not a camera, that's a computer with a lens"... ;-)

    Steve K

  6. #36
    Pieter's Avatar
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    Re: Is the obsession with analogue gearing an obstacle to art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Having the right equipment and supplies is absolutely necessary to being a real artiste. First of all, you need some green hair dye. Then you need an appropriate nose ring and belly button ring. Then you need a few bricks to throw at somebody's house, just to prove you're a rebel without a cause. And yes indeed, Paul, artistes now have all kinds of digital shortcuts so they don't need to learn to think at all. But there are also things they smoke that speeds up the ultimate objective of attaining a slow mind.
    Ahh, but the really real artistes use ancient cameras and antiquated techniques and toxic chemicals because they know that THAT is art. A performance, like getting shot with a bullet.

  7. #37
    John Olsen
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    Re: Is the obsession with analogue gearing an obstacle to art?

    The funny thing is as a film-kinda-guy, I admit that the HDR function on my phone takes really dandy photos and I fill my screensaver file with them. But when I want to feel that I have personally created something, I reach for the film and chemistry. The hundreds of electronic and software wizards who made my smartphone, my digi-camera and Photoshop programs deserve a huge applause, but I want my work to reflect my own efforts, flaws and all. Besides, the digi-folks are always referring to "work flow," like they're inside of some gidget factory. The mass-production aspect in the digital realm is just revolting to me - too much like my old work environment. Thank god I'm not trying to make a living with photography anymore!

  8. #38

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    Re: Is the obsession with analogue gearing an obstacle to art?

    I apologize, I did not want to diminish you in any way. But I guess I do keep my answers to a minimum and I am happy that several others have expanded on the essence of what I was trying to say, in a more explanatory way. I still feel that your Original post, if it says what you mean, precludes you from getting into film photography in a meaningful way. Perhaps however that post was just your way of asking for other viewpoints without having, already, made up your mind. We all learn differently.
    One does have to accept the limitations of a particular workflow. If you are always thinking that a different workflow will get you to where you want to be, then you won't be a happy camper. Of course you can get the advantages of both techniques by scanning your negatives; As always the flip side is that you get the disadvantage of both as well.
    I will happily look forward to your images.

    Bill "Thank You Andrew" Cowan

  9. #39

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    Re: Is the obsession with analogue gearing an obstacle to art?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Olsen View Post
    ...when I want to feel that I have personally created something, I reach for the film and chemistry. The hundreds of electronic and software wizards who made my smartphone, my digi-camera and Photoshop programs deserve a huge applause, but I want my work to reflect my own efforts...
    At which manufacturer are you employed as a film and chemical engineer? Kodak? Ilford? Fuji? Adox? Foma?

  10. #40
    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Re: Is the obsession with analogue gearing an obstacle to art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobab View Post
    I like the process. Far more than digital. Though I have to admit that developing can be tedious. As can dealing with all the chemicals and equipment needed to develop and print. My point was that while I enjoy the process of shooting analogue considerably more than I ever enjoyed digital, I think that it makes it harder for one to develop ones's unique vision and to produce true art.
    If you are spending half your time thinking about developers and chemicals — as well as your comment about not having shot film for long —, then that indicates to me you are still on a learning curve and have not yet reached that first zen plateau where the tools you have at yiur disposal become an extension of yourself allowing you to focus on the art.

    All artists go through this, even digital. Keep at it, learn your tools (the film, the camera, the chemicals). Try sticking to one set of tools — perhaps one general purpose developer to address your main stated concern, learn it well... like, using-it-for-years well. at some point that will “get out of the way” of your creative process and you will not worry about competing with digital.

    We’ve all been there at some point and for our own reasons. All artists have, too. The oil painter must learn to use the brush and paint without thought.

    Remember too: 100s of shots = a few good images. A roll of 35mm = a few good images. A roll of 120 = a few good images. An outing with a few Large format holders = A few good images at a resolution that will blow you away. Try them all, pick the process that you enjoy the most. Then there is a lifetime of alternative processes.
    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
    https://www.pictoriographica.com

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