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Thread: Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners

  1. #11
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners

    I replaced the sample pictures above with larger images so you can see the comparisons more clearly.

  2. #12
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    I tried sharpening the Howtek scans. But they didn't seem to get better. I've just been informed by Peter Figen that there’s no need to sharpen a 4000 ppi scan from a drum scanner. It’s already as sharp as it’s going to get and all you’re going to do is make the grain more prominent.
    That's demonstrably false.
    May tomorrow be a better day.

  3. #13

    Re: Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners

    "That's demonstrably false."

    Demonstrate it then. Having made hi-res drum scans for well over twenty years now and having had this discussion with John Panazzo of ColorByte, who wrote their Trident software, about this very topic, this is what we both agree on. Now you *might* want to apply some Lo Amount Hi Radius sharpening for mid tone contrast or you might, if you're outputting at full res to offset or inkjet, apply a mild amount of output sharpening - y'know - the sharpening that compensates for what is commonly lost in the printing process, but not for web viewing. You'll only wind up with oversharpened grain but no additional appreciable detail. If you like that, by all means, but it ain't for me.

  4. #14
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners

    I can wait
    where is the monolith

  5. #15
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners

    Here is the Howtek sharpened a little by me using Lightroom. I found that it just magnified the grain and didn't improve the direct results of no sharpening out of the Howtek.

    Howtek sharpened by Alan Klein, on Flickr

    Howtek sharpened 2 by Alan Klein, on Flickr

  6. #16

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    Re: Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners

    Of course, a Pro machine like a Howtek delivers very well digitally optimized images, there is no much room to sharpen the original image. The drums start sharpening in the taking of each row, with a linear convolution to compensate the motion blur of the high speed rotating PMT.

    Instead the Epson always require a refined 16bits/channel edition to get a perfect result.


    Given that Silverfast with Negafix is that superior for CN, the Epson is becoming a must have for LF

    Absolutely, no difference for x8 or x10 enlargements. Just a proficient scanning/edition required with the Epson. Those statemens saying that the Epson was good for x2 or x4 were totally wrong or in some cases a plain lie.

    Hey, guys... Reputation of those cheapo epsons is skyrocketing, not working that bad compared to drums


    LF Conclusion: Epson is better than drums for CN film because superior color inversion. For BW the drum may be noticeable better beyond x10 enlargement for grain depiction, Anyway we don't have much Image Quality beyond x10 from a LF negative, as in practice LF shots are usually resolving 30 to 60 lp/mm in the best focus plane.

  7. #17

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    Re: Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    The histograms were different as the black and white clip points were set differently.
    This also depends on how you have the Gamma control adjusted in the scanning software.


    Many BW negatives have a way larger Dynamic Range than a monitor may display, to there is no way to show a good linear capture of the negative, we have to clip shadows/highlights or we have to compress it.

    For a image we love, best is taking a linear 16bits/channel capture that looks dull and later editing the curve in Ps.

  8. #18
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners

    In Alan's example, it's true that the grain is bigger, but it's also true that the edges are cleaner. Whether that's important will depend on the print size. If Alan sends me the cropped image, I'd be happy to apply various sharpening techniques. I did do it on a screen capture last night, just for my own info, and it looked better to me, but I suppose that was do to my lack of experience and deplorable taste. Thanks for the friendliness, Sasquatch. Scanner threads are such wonderful places for Gemütlichkeit.
    May tomorrow be a better day.

  9. #19

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    Re: Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners

    It would be interesting a dropbox with the 16bit/channel images, the epson one made at 6400dpi

    Clearly tonality can be exactly matched, also the any drum advantage is not seen because the LF negatives are approximately outresolved by the Epson. Single doubt is at what X enlargement grain is seen different. IMO any difference should only seen by around x12, but never under x8.

    One thing is also true, Alan's scans use ANR glass allowing good focus, some may have had worse results from film curling, in the epson with a 1.2mm drop from the ideal position we get just half of the resolving power.

    Wanting top notch results from a cheap machine ? Be proficient !

  10. #20
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Howtek 8000 Drum vs. Epson V850 flatbed scanners


    No sharpening


    Method 1


    Method 2
    Last edited by Peter De Smidt; 19-Jun-2020 at 10:39.
    May tomorrow be a better day.

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