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Thread: Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens opinion

  1. #1

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    Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens opinion

    I use a Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens on my 4x5 camera. I've used it with fomapan-100 and Ilford multigrade paper as paper negatives.

    The film and paper were processed using Ilford chemicals in a Jobo rotary tank

    In all cases I've noticed that the resultant image is 'soft' compared with 'sharp' B&W images seen elsewhere on this forum.

    Agreed the words 'soft' and 'sharp' are not precise and agreed I'm not specifically taking images with definite black and/or white tones.

    I've also processed digital images from my Nikon D50 with a Nikon 85mm f1.8 lens using ps in the grey mode [to remove colour] and get a similar 'soft' B&W result.

    An I neurotic or is the xenar lens 'softer' than other lenses, or is there another possible reason??

    regards

    Tony

  2. #2

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    Re: Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens opinion

    The Xenar is always (f/11) a very sharp lens in the center, but you may have to stop to f/22 to have very sharp corners: It is a Tessar delivering a great quality very smooth bokeh in the Out Of Focus.

    Mr Pérez and Arne Cröll measured perfomance of several Xenars and they found are pretty good, it is also my personal experience: Crazy sharp !

    So check focus accuracy, GG to film plane matching and film flatness.

    Because lacking MultiCoating it may be less contrasty in some situations, but not softer.

  3. #3

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    Re: Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Because lacking MultiCoating it may be less contrasty in some situations, but not softer.
    I think this is 'my problem' - contrast is the term I should have used!!

    regards
    Tony

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    Re: Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyowen View Post
    I think this is 'my problem' - contrast is the term I should have used!!

    regards
    Tony
    You may adjust contrast in several ways: color filters, polarizer, compendium shade, film processing.

    With only 3 groups single coated Tessars generate not much flare, but as always a shade may be important.

  5. #5

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    Re: Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    You may adjust contrast in several ways: color filters, polarizer, compendium shade, film processing.
    Pere, I've got two 'yellow filters' one has 'green tinge', the other has a 'brown tinge' - one is marked as 'K2' the other 'x2' both meaning exposure compensation.

    I also have a set of 'five' Ilford below-the-lens multigrade filters that I can fit in front of the xenar lens. The 'instructions' state that #5 is for the 'flatest' negatives'.

    I've also a red filter - but that is of no use with paper negatives.

    Any comments??????

    regards

    Tony

  6. #6
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    Re: Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens opinion

    Forget color filters as a solution to overall image contrast. That is more applicable to contrast in the scene photographed between differently-colored areas/objects.

    I have always found that older Tessar-type lenses, like the Xenar, suffer from this low-contrast look. Try underexposing and overdeveloping for the simplest solution. How much depends on your taste and methods.
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  7. #7

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    Re: Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyowen View Post

    I also have a set of 'five' Ilford below-the-lens multigrade filters that I can fit in front of the xenar lens. The 'instructions' state that #5 is for the 'flatest' negatives'.
    For the "flatest negatives" means that it would rise contrast on the paper negative.

    #5 ilford filter will make your paper "color blind" and it will take only blue (red will have no effect on paper), as it blocks green, giving a similar look than wet plate.

    Also as you rise paper contrast your captured latitude will be narrower, see the paper curves in the datasheet.


    ...so it's better if you rise contrast when you make the positive, by illuminating the contact copy with light filtered by one of those ilford filters.


    You may also try the polarizer if direct sunlight reaches the scene. The polarizer mostly saturates colors but it may have an effect on a BW medium.

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    Re: Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens opinion

    I have a 360 TeleXenar that I also think is somewhat less contrasty than (for example) the Nikkor 360 - 500- 720 set. Makes a nice photo but not sharp enough to "cut your eye" by any means. Not smart enough to know exactly how the TeleZenar would relate, though, just going by the name.

  9. #9

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    Re: Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens opinion

    The Xenar is, as stated above, a classic version of the Tessar design. Assuming good physical condition, it should perform very well. But they were made for a very long time; pre-WWII versions will be uncoated and thus lower in contrast than later, coated examples. Even those will not show the brilliant contrast of a modern multi-coated lens- although the resolution stopped down may well equal the newer optics. Many photographers prize the 'look' of the classic Tessars, most eloquently our own Bernice Loui; I'm partial to it myself. Mr. Andrada's Tele-Xenar is not a Tessar design, but it was likely made in the same era as yours, so will likely exhibit similar contrast characteristics; as he points out, less contrast than the more modern Nikkor-T.
    The K2 (yellow#8) and X2 (yellow-green #13) filters you mention will alter subject tones, sometimes acting to increase contrast- depending on the subject and lighting. The Ilford multigrade filters are for making b/w prints in the darkroom and are not meant for on-camera use.
    Are you comparing this lens against a modern multi-coated lens? If so, you might try increasing the development maybe 10% for film exposed through the Xenar and see how that compares. But it would probably be easier just to print the Xenar negs to the contrast level that looks good. I'm assuming here that you are making darkroom prints...
    I won't try to advise you about making paper negatives; I have little experience with them. And when you talk about digital images, well, once you get into the software world, all bets are off.
    Hope this helps... best of luck!

  10. #10

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    Re: Xenar 135mm f4.7 lens opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Andrada View Post
    I have a 360 TeleXenar that I also think is somewhat less contrasty than (for example) the Nikkor 360 - 500- 720 set. Makes a nice photo but not sharp enough to "cut your eye" by any means. Not smart enough to know exactly how the TeleZenar would relate, though, just going by the name.
    Jim, yes.. but it also depends on the era those lenses were made.

    Later APO-Tele-Xenar models may be better than nikkor T glass. In particular for 8x10 (the scarce) APO-Tele-Xenar 600 and 800 is quite superior.

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