Wet Plate Collodion questions answered here.

[Tin Can]

Thank you!! This is encouraging!!

Good to know exactly what Sunning does

Thank you

[largeformatposer88]

The silver bath can last indefinitely, if properly maintained. John Coffer states that some of his silver baths are twenty-plus years old and still fully functional.

You may know by now that "maintenance" involves regular filtering, monitoring of the specific gravity of the bath (to measure how much silver you've taken out) and replenishment of the silver nitrate content. You will also have to occasionally sun the bath to let the alcohol evaporate and prompt the debris to settle out for filtering. There are other maintenance actions you may have to take further down the road as well, but replenishing, filtering and sunning are the main ones.
Note: I'm one of those practitioners who will warn you not to boil your silver bath for "heavy maintenance": you are in danger of creating silver fulminate in the process, and that compound is outrageously dangerous (explosive). There are alternatives to boiling your silver bath - get a good manual and learn the techniques. Quinn Jacobson's "Chemical Pictures" is a good option. (Quinn's not the most organized writer, so the book isn't the most coherent volume on the subject, but the actual information in the book is excellent, as long as you have the patience for his writing style)

Regarding the cost of maintaining the silver bath: Replenishing the silver content of the bath is something that must be done regularly. Measure the SG and top up the bath as needed. Many practitioners add a gram of AgNO3 after every plate making session. If you make 50 plates and then choose to replenish, you may find you are adding 20 or more grams of Silver to top it up. So its still not cheap to maintain the bath - you have to replace the silver you take out every time you sensitize a plate. But yes, its far cheaper than making a fresh bath every time after you've made 50 plates! I'll say it again: get yourself a good manual that describes these practices in more detail. John Coffers "Doers Guide" is another excellent source of information.

Thank you so much for this info. I will check out the "Doers Guide" for sure!

[MajorGlory78]

Hey guys and girls, I was wondering if you people could help me troubleshoot an issue with my first ever collodion plates.

The main problem is a fogginess or veil over the images (the images themselves are lacking in contrast, but this could be a side-effect of the fog).

A short description of my chemicals, process and tests I've done today:

- I have bought a premixed, ready-to go set of chemicals from a supplier:
- Collodion (manufacturing date 20-10-2022)
- Silver nitrate solution
- MD9 Developer (ready to use as is)
- Fixer

I have left a glass plate with collodion in the silverbath for about four hours (as instructed by the photographer giving the workshop a few weeks back) before starting.

I am using a Stenopeika 8x10 camera, using 4x5 aluminium plates in a 4x5 reducing backplate. The camera 'seems' to be completely dark inside.

After the first plates came out and, after developing, rinsing, fixing and rinsing again, where pretty foggy and with hardly any contrast I decided to rule out the camera and the dark-room red light by sensitizing a plate in the darkroom and after four minutes, in complete darkness (not even the red light on), develop it directly without ever exposing the plate. It was quite a challenge doing it all by feeling around . At first, after developing and fixing it this way, it seems pretty dark (still a hint of fog, so not completely black as I would expect, but not much). As soon as it is drying, it does seem to turn even more foggy again.....

The causes I can think of are:

- Collodion not ripe enough
- Silverbath not 'activated' enough
- A problem with the developer, either with the chemicals or the way I am using it (too long or too short)
- ....

In order to rule out the silverbath not being activated, I have decided to put a clean glass plate with collodion in the bath overnight....

How to rule out these options, or, even better, what options am I completely overlooking?

Thanks for your time and wisdom.

Anne

[paulbarden]

Anne,
The most common culprit for fogged or hazy plates is overdevelopment. I am not familiar with the specific developer you've stated you're using (Its from Mamut?), but the manufacturer must have stated the optimal development time, yes? With wet plate collodion, if you exceed the ideal development time, its very likely that you will start to develop even the unexposed areas, thus fogging the whole plate.

It would also be a good idea to do the "no exposure, develop plate" test with the safelight on: pour the collodion, sensitize it in the silver bath, remove it and let it sit under the safelight (at a safe distance) for a couple minutes, then develop it exactly according to instructions - not a second longer! Rinse and fix it, and evaluate. You should have a clear plate with no silver developed on it. Its likely that your safelight is "safe" for collodion, but its a good idea to test for sure. I'm betting that your developer is too active for the collodion (and your atmospheric conditions), or you're leaving it on the plate too long. Collodion isn't like film; you can't just leave it in the developer longer to get more density, because you will just get a fogged plate if you ver develop. Better to do a new plate and adjust exposure to get it correct. The development time is one variable you should keep the same every time, and adjust exposure to match it.

One other variable to consider: if the temperature where you are is warmer than 75F, then you need to re-evaluate the developer you're using. Warm conditions are the enemy of wet plate work. If your developer is too warm, its much more likely to fog plates, even if the development time is correct.
In warm/hot weather, you adjust your developer by either diluting it with water, or adding more acetic acid to restrain its activity.

[MajorGlory78]

Hello PaulBarden,

Thank you for your reply! You where (for what I described as problem) spot-on! Since I couldn't find any conclusive documentation for the developer I am using, I interpreted your advice somewhat: I started working backwards on developing non-exposed plates until I got the clean, dark result. From 30 to 20 seconds (in steps of 5 seconds) the fog remained. Somewhere between 15 and 10 seconds it didn't occur! Succes! (or so I thought). The images from the camera however where still pretty vague and foggy. So I did a new test with a non-exposed plate, but this time in the camera (with the lens cap on, I opened the cassette for 20 seconds, closed it, and developed). To my relief I still got nice and black plates. The camera and cassette seem to be fine! So what was it then?

I figured the results looked somewhat like overexposed images. I decided to do my light meseaurement not on ISO 1 (as I was adviced to do earlier) but on ISO 3....The exposure time was much less (of course) but details where emerging in the image! I am now working with measurements of ISO 2 and keeping the development time to a strict 15 seconds. For now, this seems to be the best of both worlds. I will experiment more (once I get my new plates in......I wasted quite a lot this weekend). I feel the plates could do with a little more exposure time....but that seems to be the fun part: What is my perfect mix of exposure and development....

That being said, your reply put me on the right track and I am (re)gaining confidence in the process and equipment. So thank you once again!

Edit: In order to help people with the same chemicals in the near future, I ordered my chemicals pre-mixed from Mamut Photo:

- Premixed Collodion LILIANA
- Developer MD-9

[paulbarden]

Hello PaulBarden,

Thank you for your reply! You where (for what I described as problem) spot-on! Since I couldn't find any conclusive documentation for the developer I am using, I interpreted your advice somewhat: I started working backwards on developing non-exposed plates until I got the clean, dark result. From 30 to 20 seconds (in steps of 5 seconds) the fog remained. Somewhere between 15 and 10 seconds it didn't occur! Succes! (or so I thought). The images from the camera however where still pretty vague and foggy. So I did a new test with a non-exposed plate, but this time in the camera (with the lens cap on, I opened the cassette for 20 seconds, closed it, and developed). To my relief I still got nice and black plates. The camera and cassette seem to be fine! So what was it then?

I figured the results looked somewhat like overexposed images. I decided to do my light meseaurement not on ISO 1 (as I was adviced to do earlier) but on ISO 3....The exposure time was much less (of course) but details where emerging in the image! I am now working with measurements of ISO 2 and keeping the development time to a strict 15 seconds. For now, this seems to be the best of both worlds. I will experiment more (once I get my new plates in......I wasted quite a lot this weekend). I feel the plates could do with a little more exposure time....but that seems to be the fun part: What is my perfect mix of exposure and development....

That being said, your reply put me on the right track and I am (re)gaining confidence in the process and equipment. So thank you once again!

Edit: In order to help people with the same chemicals in the near future, I ordered my chemicals pre-mixed from Mamut Photo:

- Premixed Collodion LILIANA
- Developer MD-9

Anne,
I'm glad you've narrowed things down to the point you're getting images. Finding the balance between exposure and development is often the biggest challenge for new practitioners, so your difficulties aren't unique. If the developer you're using is anything like most standard positive developers (I suspect it is) then 10-15 seconds development time is considered optimal under most conditions. Its best to stick to the shortest development time it takes to get a good image, and avoid going longer.

Keep at it - I'm sure you'll get good at it very quickly. Please show us your work, when you feel ready to share!
Paul

[Two23]

For positives I generally will take a test plate with 4 strips of increasing exposures on it (2-4-6-8 seconds) and see which exposure time looks best when developed at 15 seconds. As for boiling the bath, I do it when I start getting tiny black dots. I add about 30% more distilled water, sun for two days, then boil for 10 minutes, filter well. I've yet to read of any explosions when bath is boiled for a short time and it stays liquid.


Kent in SD

[paulbarden]

For positives I generally will take a test plate with 4 strips of increasing exposures on it (2-4-6-8 seconds) and see which exposure time looks best when developed at 15 seconds. As for boiling the bath, I do it when I start getting tiny black dots. I add about 30% more distilled water, sun for two days, then boil for 10 minutes, filter well. I've yet to read of any explosions when bath is boiled for a short time and it stays liquid.


Kent in SD

Personally, I don't think its a good idea to advise a brand new practitioner to boil their silver bath (Anne: look up "Silver fulminate"). Its not likely going to be necessary for him to consider doing, at least not for a couple years.

And yes, a test strip is an excellent way to determine correct exposure, especially when starting out.

[MajorGlory78]

Thanks for the extra info Two23, and thanks for the nuance PaulBarden, don't worry, I think any honest given advice is useful. It is up to me to do my research on any risks concerning certain steps. I have read quite a lot about Wet Plate before and I have followed a local workshop here in the Netherlands before getting my hands dirty (litterally, despite the gloves ). Unfortunately I ran out of plates this weekend. I have tried 'cleaning' one or two when they where still wet, but no matter how properly I try to clean them, the Collodion won't flow properly on a used plate and the image does not seem to appear properly. So re-using plates was a no-go.

P.S. I know this sounds funny to non-dutch people (in fact, It even sounds funny to most dutch people). In some parts of the country 'Anne' is a guys name here. In my case it is

[Andreas]

Hi Anne,
I made my first silver tank with dark red plexiglass. Unfortunately I found out that the stuff is pretty transparent to UV light and I fogged many plates before switching to a black tank. I now use a very bright yellow LED with not a hint of fogging.
I agree with Paul Barden's advice and keep my collodion cool, which also prevents a too quick evaporation of ether and alcohol.
Andreas