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Thread: Tray print washer question

  1. #11

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    Re: Tray print washer question

    A quote from Cleric's guide was "The first 10 wash minutes washes out the hypo, the rest of the time washes the tank" which means the fixer itself washes out early, but the wash water needs to have a lower concentration of thiosulfate complexes than the remains in the paper or osmosis stops... Changes of water lower the concentration, but the jets tend to keep the paper separate, but too much flow near them creates a "boundary layer" on the surfaces that inhibit this transfer...

    Tray washing with 10 changes of fresh water trays (with 5 min in each) is archival, but a lot of handwork, lifting each print and draining throughly and placing in next tray "back to back, belly to belly" does it...

    One problem with washers is during prolonged washes, if microscopic rust is in tapwater, it can slowly start building along an edge of the print that is closest to the tank feed... I would get a slight orange edge on prints that washed for over an hour and a half...

  2. #12

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    Re: Tray print washer question

    Quote Originally Posted by bob carnie View Post
    I would love to make a vertical washer for murals, kind of what I have seen of videos of Clyde Butcher has.. if anyone has plans for one of these I would love to see them... I would use the hard grey plastic like I used for my oversize sinks, the guy who made them is no longer in business.
    Bob, I was considering making a water wall inspired in dust collection systems:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwEXuktc2tw

    It would be an inclinated board (in the water wall is vertical) with something collecting water at the bottom, and a pump recirculating the liquid to the top.

    This would take developer one shot, the water stop, the fixer one shot and washing water (dumped and refilled several times).

    I'm considering to place that inside a ULF Jumper 2 L2H2 van I'm projecting, I've the van yet, but it should also work in a darkroom, in that case water could be continuously replaced.

    The challenge is to adhere the print to the wall, I was considering placing suction ports in the top of the wall (several areas with perforated plating) and using a vacuum pump.

  3. #13

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    Re: Tray print washer question

    Just to add to the Ilford method (my choice as well):

    I have started using Photographers' Formulary F5 fixer, which offers a short fixing time and less tendency to cling to the paper than some others, while allowing some flexibility with extended fix time. However, since I tend to spend hours working on a single negative and keep an initial proof print for filing, and sometimes prints along the way to my final ones for review later. I also use Permawash and a final wash, Ilford style, when I'm all done. They add up to about 15 minutes and give me prints that consistently test very clean.

    I don't print larger than 11x14 any longer. I have a plastic tub like this one (https://tinyurl.com/y7r4v3tr) into which I have drilled two sets of holes in one end: one set of small ones (3/32"?)about 1" from the bottom, one set of larger (3/16"?) about a quarter inch above them. Thus, I can keep a holding bath of a gallon of water, adding a modest flow from time to time, or
    dump and refill; I can also increase the flow up to the larger holes, which, combined with the lower, let pass about a gallon a minute.

    I rinse fixer off prints gently, both sides, with a faucet hose before adding them to the wash tub, but my water stays off most of the session.
    Philip U.

    Sine scientia ars nihil est. (Without science/knowledge, art is nothing.)
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/156933346@N07/

  4. #14

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    Re: Tray print washer question

    If you want to make internal separators in a vertical washer that hold on to the print through surface tension, prismatic diffusion material out of light fittings is essentially what a number of well known European washer brands use. If weight is an issue and internal chemical isolation of prints from each other doesn't matter as much, look at how the DeVille washers use plastic strips suspended between top and bottom bars to make a basket to separate and hold the prints.

    It is also important to consider the flow pattern/ rate so that you get a good wash without wasting water or dislodging the print and crumpling it under its own weight.

    No need to re-invent the wheel in overly complex ways.

  5. #15
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    Re: Tray print washer question

    I have an Oriental vertical print washer from the old days, but it only goes to 11x14. For 16x20, I used the Ilford method. I didn't make prints that large all that often.

    I even have an old Arkay washer, but that didn't solve the problem of the water being contaminated by the most recent prints inserted into it. It's good for a batch of small prints, though.

    Rick "who often used resin-coated papers for production work" Denney

  6. #16

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    Re: Tray print washer question

    RC only needs a few minute wash or bad things happen later...

    A tray siphon washer before next print is made, and a place to dry immediately (after a sponge wipe) saves time over FB when session is done...

    Steve K

  7. #17
    Exploring Large Format Exploring Large Format's Avatar
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    Re: Tray print washer question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Bob, I was considering making a water wall inspired in dust collection systems:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwEXuktc2tw

    It would be an inclinated board (in the water wall is vertical) with something collecting water at the bottom, and a pump recirculating the liquid to the top.

    This would take developer one shot, the water stop, the fixer one shot and washing water (dumped and refilled several times).

    I'm considering to place that inside a ULF Jumper 2 L2H2 van I'm projecting, I've the van yet, but it should also work in a darkroom, in that case water could be continuously replaced.

    The challenge is to adhere the print to the wall, I was considering placing suction ports in the top of the wall (several areas with perforated plating) and using a vacuum pump.
    Oh how I wish we had one of these water walls when I did stone/brick work. Hours breathing that dust, with and without masks! Not good!

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  8. #18

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    Re: Tray print washer question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Calwell View Post
    Jim - excellent idea! Iíll try the Ilford method. For 8x10s, Iím thinking an 11x14 tray would be big enough?
    That is what I use.

  9. #19
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Tray print washer question

    I made my own Plexiglas slot washers in 11X14, 16X20, and 20X24 inch models, and a different style for big 30X40 inch prints, though for those big ones, just a big tray and a Koday tray siphon works pretty well. You can do food coloring dye tests with washers to get a pretty good idea of their efficiency. But I switched to TF4 fixer for everything quite awhile back, which rinses out easier, though I still give fiber-based prints a full hour in the washer, just to be certain. Remember, rinse water has to efficiently get both behind and in front of the print, so you need a design where the print doesn't cling to a smooth surface. I use tiny silicone (not vinyl) hemispherical self-adhesive bumpers on the washer septums. They work great for developer tray bottoms too.

  10. #20
    wclark5179's Avatar
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    Re: Tray print washer question

    ďmultiple prints would stick together requiring one to shuffle through the stack Ē

    Yes, I find thatís true.

    I do own a print washer but use it only when I have a number of prints to wash at a time.

    For me, I primarily use RC paper. Much better for what I do.

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