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Thread: Experience with Colenta Processors

  1. #11

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    Re: Experience with Colenta Processors

    When I worked at Kodak I operated and did some maintenance on my department's Kreonite roller-transport C-41 (and RA-4) processors, for twenty years or so. I shot a fair amount of the C-41 film that I processed in that machine, too. They generally worked well if used a lot, less so when volume was low. And we had a full maintenance department on call. Never destroyed any valuable film but even so, RT never seemed like the best idea. I think the idea had been that we would be processing long rolls of 9-1/2" aerial film; luckily that never happened. Another department nearby purchased Colex/Colenta machines during that time; they seemed better-engineered but the similar issues of scratching remained. Happily, I'm a dozen years away from color processing now, but I think that for volume processing dip'n'dunk would the way to go.
    I would contact Edgar Praus at Praus Productions for his input, He does as good work as I've ever seen and is (in his words) passionate about doing quality lab work. Although his lab uses Refrema machines, I think his input would be quite valuable.

  2. #12

    Re: Experience with Colenta Processors

    I've been speaking with a rep at Colenta and he has some interesting things say.

    Hello again Mark,

    Our 20 C41 20 6Tank Wash model is the lowest cost option of C41 RT film processor that we can offer, the next size is our 30 C41 32 at US$ 46, 230 and then a much faster 30 C41 65 model for high production needs

    As advised all models are roller transport using our well proven staggered/non-apposed hard roller system with minimal contact to the film surfaces at all times. Yes, there are recommended cleaning procedures to follow when using a roller transport film processor but these are very simple and straightforward to carryout and ensure consistent high quality processing results.

    We certainly understand that there are potential customers who want to use a Dip & Dunk in preference over Roller Transport – we will soon cover both options by bringing a new version of D&D to the market using the robotic technology we designed for the PCB Glass Plate industry, we will send you more detailed information on the design and technology we are using in the coming weeks.

    Thank you for your continued interest in using our film processors. B.Rgds Patrick
    So a couple takeaways that I notice. There is no mention of sponges, the rollers are hard and there are cleaning sheets. So that's good! This is possibly based on a newer design than those used in negative takeaways here.

    Also, they are building a new dip and dunk machine! I don't know if my lab will be able to afford it. If the mid-tier roller transport model is in the 40k range I am already out. I think I'll be able to swing a machine in the $30-40k zone of pricing. However, we'll see what it looks like when it arrives.

    R&D continues in the world of film processing. Very good information and news IMO!

  3. #13
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Experience with Colenta Processors

    The answer is obvious to me... there are three elements to consider time price quality - you can have two of them never three. If your lab is positioning itself on quality then a dip and dunk is your goal. If you working with a less precision crowd then price and speed would be the call and a roller transport is ok.... In Toronto there were Refrema Labs - then everyone else.

  4. #14

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    Re: Experience with Colenta Processors

    While the Colenta may be better than many other roller transport systems in terms of its rollers etc, the problems I reported above almost entirely related to loading the film into the machine - in other words, it has a high potential for operator error, especially if stressed or under time pressure. If you don't mess that up, it usually does ok, though I'd strongly advise that you get some hands-on time with one before going further into purchasing. I take it that you already have budgeted for the 3-phase power installation?

    It is very interesting that Colenta are looking at making dip/dunk machines - I wonder what their capacity and price target will be, because I suspect there's a demand for dip/dunk quality but without the excessively huge capacity some of the machines used to offer.

  5. #15

    Re: Experience with Colenta Processors

    Quote Originally Posted by interneg View Post
    I wonder what their capacity and price target will be, because I suspect there's a demand for dip/dunk quality but without the excessively huge capacity some of the machines used to offer.
    I wonder if this may have been an issue with the Refrema machine for the lab I was familiar with, relying on in-person trade in Norwich, not exactly a Birmingham, Manchester or Glasgow for that matter.

  6. #16

    Re: Experience with Colenta Processors

    Quote Originally Posted by bob carnie View Post
    The answer is obvious to me... there are three elements to consider time price quality - you can have two of them never three. If your lab is positioning itself on quality then a dip and dunk is your goal. If you working with a less precision crowd then price and speed would be the call and a roller transport is ok.... In Toronto there were Refrema Labs - then everyone else.
    That's not my impression of the marketplace these days. Maybe back when a studio was running hundreds of sheets of the same emulsion 4x5 or 120 E6 you could find lots of people who demand no less than what dip and dunk affords, but nobody works that way anymore. Frankly my customers are very happy with the film I currently run though my V30 and the sheet film I do in Expert Drums. The roller transport collenta would be an upgrade for me mostly and one they would hardly notice.

    However Pat at Colenta has mentioned that the dip and dunk machine is something of a new design and is indeed meant for lower volume users. He's going to update me when he has more info. My expansion is likely a year away so I'm mostly in the planning stages right now. There will be a loans, a build out, new scanners and some kind of newer higher end processor ie a Colenta. I'm planning to position my shop as a bigger player in the New England market. But it'll be based on the new paradigm. Dev/Scan services and fast turnaround. If you look at my large format services now you'll see what I mean: https://www.northeastphotographic.com/largeformat

    Basically nobody can compete with what I'm doing on price AFAIK. I don't claim to deliver exactly what a drum scan can be, but for most photographers I am delivering a file that can be printed large or small, and edited with some flexilbility. Then of course the bread and butter is the Fuji Frontier scan work I do.

  7. #17

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    Re: Experience with Colenta Processors

    The downfall of many running a film line is failure to maintain control and cleanliness. In a test a few years ago we sent 4x5 film to a number of labs and all but one had embedded dirt from failure to maintain the dryer section. Praus was the only one that passed the test. We didn't try to test whether the test subjects were in control, but that would have been a good test. Controlling the process seemed to be a big problem with the rise of digital because there simply wasn't enough film run through the chemistry. I wish you success with your venture.

  8. #18
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Experience with Colenta Processors

    Quote Originally Posted by sperdynamite View Post
    That's not my impression of the marketplace these days. Maybe back when a studio was running hundreds of sheets of the same emulsion 4x5 or 120 E6 you could find lots of people who demand no less than what dip and dunk affords, but nobody works that way anymore. Frankly my customers are very happy with the film I currently run though my V30 and the sheet film I do in Expert Drums. The roller transport collenta would be an upgrade for me mostly and one they would hardly notice.

    However Pat at Colenta has mentioned that the dip and dunk machine is something of a new design and is indeed meant for lower volume users. He's going to update me when he has more info. My expansion is likely a year away so I'm mostly in the planning stages right now. There will be a loans, a build out, new scanners and some kind of newer higher end processor ie a Colenta. I'm planning to position my shop as a bigger player in the New England market. But it'll be based on the new paradigm. Dev/Scan services and fast turnaround. If you look at my large format services now you'll see what I mean: https://www.northeastphotographic.com/largeformat

    Basically nobody can compete with what I'm doing on price AFAIK. I don't claim to deliver exactly what a drum scan can be, but for most photographers I am delivering a file that can be printed large or small, and edited with some flexilbility. Then of course the bread and butter is the Fuji Frontier scan work I do.
    I went to your website.. Really nice ... I too used a Fuji Frontier Scanner and loved it,, I also have a Creo Eversmart and Imocan.... When I did my last move I got rid of the Frontier Scanner. I regret it now. I probably will look at Noritsu , They are the people here in Canada that fix my Canon Printer so I am meeting with them tomorrow to fix an issue.. In my case I have a lot of small image (slides and Neg ) reproduction so a scanner like this will be good for me.
    The Imocan and Creo are both clumsy in their own ways for small format large volume work.
    It seems you are setting up for film , develop, scan and print service. At the moment the Jobos are probably giving you incredible results but slow... that is where I am in my business.... I have no inclination to go higher production numbers in film because of the Downtown Camera company in town who just bought two Hostert Processers one for BW and one for Colour.
    If they had not done this I was really considering a dip dunk processor as both my wife and I have 70 years combined process print experience and it would have been a natural extension to my printing... But I have to say, that the photographers are in some cases very fickle and un waivering in blaming the film process dudes when something happens... I will say again and you can take it for my two cents.... a roller transport will come back and bite you in the ass with scratches, and you then have a situation of putting out a fire when you probably least want to do it.
    Not to mention I have noticed in the last 8 years , photographers are purchasing old film or out dated film with poor storage , shooting it and wanting it processed, for me and my Jobo system it is a PIA loading some of the film supplied to me and not to mention possible defects due to age..

    I wish you well , and I hope you go with the Colenta dip dunk... once again my 2 cents but I am active each day in this industry ... www.alternativephotoservices.com is my site.

    regards

    Bob

  9. #19
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Experience with Colenta Processors

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Michael View Post
    The downfall of many running a film line is failure to maintain control and cleanliness. In a test a few years ago we sent 4x5 film to a number of labs and all but one had embedded dirt from failure to maintain the dryer section. Praus was the only one that passed the test. We didn't try to test whether the test subjects were in control, but that would have been a good test. Controlling the process seemed to be a big problem with the rise of digital because there simply wasn't enough film run through the chemistry. I wish you success with your venture.
    Not to mention that back in the day when I managed a E6 lab we had Kodak and Fuji technical help at our fingertips and any one running a film lab did run calibration . E6 was the most finicky, C41 less so , and BW even less but for each process there were calibration film tests that we used.

  10. #20

    Re: Experience with Colenta Processors

    https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlKiGRqr4DYvxgqVjhDItUN93JvF

    I got an update from Colenta recently about their newest design. As a lab owner I find this pretty interesting. It would require a $60-70k investment in the unit and the build out.

    However, it would also be capable of processing C41 and B&W near simultaneously, and is convertible to E6.

    Given Covid and other realities I will not be expanding for at least another year, but when I do, I am hoping I can make this new dip and dunk machine a part of it.

    In the meantime, I have a refurbished Jobo ATL 2500 coming from Germany in the early Fall. This will move more of my sheet film processing to an automatic machine.

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