Old ICA lens question

[grat]

I haven't actually taken a shot with the 4x5 (stay-at-home sucks), but I did use it as a lens for my DSLR (heresy!) by putting it in the front standard, removing the back, and holding the DSLR in place (with no lens). Considering all the issues (low contrast, camera shake, shooting through a glass door), the pictures came out pretty decent. Decent enough I really want to shoot some film now.

Looking at it, though, there's a metallic glint under strong light on the edges of the blades-- It really looks like they're metal. The ICA 1919 catalog says, badly translated:

Fur Zeitaufnabmen und momentgefchwindigkeit von 1 1/8 1/5 1/10 1/25 1/50 1/100 1/250 S. Mit Fingerdruckoder Metallauslofung (Irisblende).

Which translates to, apparently:

For recording time and speed of 1 1/8 1/5 1/10 1/25 1/50 1/100 1/250 S. With finger pressure or metal opening (iris diaphragm).

Granted, that's 1919, and as far as I can tell, the shutter is from late 1914.

Here's a shot with the front element removed:

[Dan Fromm]

Do I see rust?

[grat]

Could be traces of oxidation, yes... especially on the blade coming up from the 7 o'clock position. Or it could just be grungy. Also some scrapes. It's definitely overdue for a cleaning.

Got an estimate that seems reasonable (to me, although its obvious my judgement is iffy), so I'm probably going to leave it wide-open for now, shoot a couple frames and if they don't have horrible blotches, send it in to find out how close the estimate is to reality.

I appreciate all the feedback people have given.

[J. Patric Dahlen]

Yes, those are metal blades. Excellent. Most of my Compurs of that style have the paper blades. The risk with a dislodged aperture blade is that it can move about and cause more blades to dislodge. If you know which blade it is you could try to move it a little to get the pin into place. It's risky, so it would be better to let someone with experience open the shutter and get to the iris and fix it. Or maybe you'll find one on this or another forum who has dealt with these shutters before and get some tips how to do it yourself.

You could try it on the 4x5 indoors, or through an open window. Digital sensors are so small compared to 4x5 that you'll see more of the optical defects than you would on the large format. If it really is a Dagor-type (like the 6,8 Maximar) it might cover 4x5 (or at least illuminate that size) if stopped down to 22 or smaller.

[chris73]

Oh i just found this thread.
I have somewhere an ICA "Toska 215" 9X12 with quick release Compound shutter and a “Maximar” 1:5.4 / 13.5cm lens.
If i recall well it must by dated just before WWI.

The strange thing (at least for me) is that the rear and front symmetrical (i think) lens parts, can not be separated (they are glued in groups) though inside there is fungus!
(the spider web type)

I could "find" it and upload some photographs if someone is interested.

[grat]

That's the 3rd example of the f/5.4 Maximar I've heard of now. I have one, I found one in a camera for auction, and now yours.

Pity about the fungus. Mine has a small blemish on the outside element of the rear set. Doesn't seem to affect the images too much, although I have yet to develop one and look at it closely.

I've decided to have mine repaired, just need to send it off.

[J. Patric Dahlen]

Oh i just found this thread.
I have somewhere an ICA "Toska 215" 9X12 with quick release Compound shutter and a “Maximar” 1:5.4 / 13.5cm lens.
If i recall well it must by dated just before WWI.

The strange thing (at least for me) is that the rear and front symmetrical (i think) lens parts, can not be separated (they are glued in groups) though inside there is fungus!
(the spider web type)

I could "find" it and upload some photographs if someone is interested.

It should have three cemented lens elements in both groups. Is the fungus inside one of those groups, in the balsam between two cemented elements? Yes, upload photos. This is interesting.

5,4 is not that common for "Dagor" type of lenses. The Rietzschel Linear has eight elements in two groups, like an "improved Dagor", and they are common in f:4,8. The max aperture is only for focusing, so you would stop down to f:12,5 or more for normal photography.

[chris73]

I will check tomorrow for more pictures. Since then i found in my hard drive one pic of the fungus that i can not recal if is in front or rear group (probably front), and a test pic with this lens on a ...m43 camera

[chris73]

So, closer inspection of the lens made me think that this is a kind of balsam deterioration in both front and rear groups. Circular spots are air bubbles in glass.


The camera is in nice condition and capable of tilt movements too.

[chris73]

It is strange that the rear group S/N does not match the front for just 4 digits(?)...


On camera there is a second infinity mark to be used with only one group of the lens stoped down as telephoto.


I measure in front of the lens a diameter of about 23mm wide open. That gives something like f5.9 on 5.4 mark.
The lens wide open on a ...m43 camera.