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Thread: SINAR Norma: Now I get it!

  1. #11

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    Re: SINAR Norma: Now I get it!

    The tapered bellows for 5x7 is a given requirement to transition from the square size of the front standard to meet the square frame size of the 5x7 film back.

    Bellows flare is a given and it can cause more problems that most would know or realize. This is why going after THE largest image circle beyond what is needed for a given film format is not a good idea. This is also why folks who use a larger film format camera with a reducing film back can achieve better contrast rendition on film.

    Alternative is to apply an adjustable bellows lens shade to essentially cut off the excessive stray light that will bounce off the insides of the bellows. This has been discussed on LFF. do a search on this topic.


    Bernice

  2. #12

    Re: SINAR Norma: Now I get it!

    I bought a new Norma in 1969 and used it as my primary 4x5 camera in my commercial studio for decades. I couldn’t even guess how many thousand sheets of film I’ve put through it and it still works like a new camera and looks great too. I used it in the studio and on location and it has traveled many trips across the country.

    I owned the 5x7 components that I bought in 1970 and used them on occasion but used it for personal work more than commercial. 5x7 really never took off in the US for commercial work.

  3. #13

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    Re: SINAR Norma: Now I get it!

    5x7 was and has been THE odd sheet film format in the US for decades. It has often been considered an artsy sheet film format for a long list of reasons. Back in those days, 4x5 was by far the most common sheet film size for a long list of reasons. If you're doing commercial work of producing several hundred to thousand sheets of color transparency film for catalog printing, film cost does make a difference as with efficiency of image production. This is one of the reasons why 4x5 color transparency film, in studio table top, controlled lighting and Sinar P could be so effective at this kind of work. Those days are essentially long gone.

    In Europe (Germany) 13x18cm was popular, very popular. That was a time when importing color transparency film like Agfa chrome RS100 was not too bad. This is why there are 13x18cm film holders today along with 5x67 film holders.

    8x10 was a much lesser common commercial sheet film format, it was even back then considered more of an artist format. IMO, it's origins goes back to studio portraiture and there is little that can equal the unique image quality of a 8x10 portrait contact print made using a sort-of-focus lens.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by Don Dudenbostel View Post
    5x7 really never took off in the US for commercial work.

  4. #14

    Re: SINAR Norma: Now I get it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    5x7 was and has been THE odd sheet film format in the US for decades. It has often been considered an artsy sheet film format for a long list of reasons. Back in those days, 4x5 was by far the most common sheet film size for a long list of reasons. If you're doing commercial work of producing several hundred to thousand sheets of color transparency film for catalog printing, film cost does make a difference as with efficiency of image production. This is one of the reasons why 4x5 color transparency film, in studio table top, controlled lighting and Sinar P could be so effective at this kind of work. Those days are essentially long gone.
    I've been in the business 52 years and still shoot a little commercial work. The majority of my work was for catalogs and advertising and still do ads. In the days before scanners appeared all separations were done on a process camera or enlarger like a Durst 8x10. We shot to a specific format for catalogs. I worked for a couple of large ad agencies before opening my studio 35 years ago. The art department would produce clear acetate overlays with the area pf the page scaled to fit the format we were shooting. We used the overlay to place elements of the image in the proper space and had the copy blocked in so we would know where that would go. We shot all pages to match an overlay that was consistent from page to page. Al single page shots would be exactly the same scale reproduction, all double page the same scale and so on. The made it possible to gang separate rather than a different and costly scale for each image. Individual shots were on 4x5 and inserted in the page, full page were 8x10 and double page 11x14 Color Transparencies. Generally it was Ektachrome but later I used Fuji Provia. Even though sheet film was expensive the cost savings in seps was significant over the cost of oil,.

    Scanners however changed the world and we no longer shot to scale. Gan sees were no problem on a drum scanner.

  5. #15

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    Re: SINAR Norma: Now I get it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Exploring Large Format View Post
    the Norma
    You may download this manual for the Norma: http://doczz.net/doc/2811502/the-rou...nd-adjusting-t...


    Anyway I serviced mine by simply using a thin layer dry teflon special lube, mine was not moving fine but it was like new after it was simply lubricated in that way without disassembling it, contact me by PM if wnating detailed instructions for that. Several years after that lubrication it still works perfectly smooth, see how smooth it handles a near 2kg lens, with all hard points precise and smooth:

    https://live.staticflickr.com/video/...NmMiLCJ2IjoxfQ



    There are many very good LF cameras, but the Norma is legendary like not many. Mine was the workhorse of two photographers in a row, working dayly for decades, and still it's like new.

  6. #16
    Exploring Large Format Exploring Large Format's Avatar
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    Re: SINAR Norma: Now I get it!

    Thanks all, for your responses and especially for the links on Norma cleaning, lubrication. Haven't tackled a full-on rehab yet, but did read the cleaning manual more than once.

    Gave me just what I needed to loosen a stuck set screw with confidence and I avoided buggering it up. Amazing how the high quality hex wrench works sooo much better than the bicycle tool hex wrench of the same nominal size. Lots of excellent tips in that guide!

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  7. #17

    Re: SINAR Norma: Now I get it!

    New Sinar Norma second 4x5 one by Nokton48, on Flickr

    Having multiple cameras is real luxury and means that they can be configured and left setup as long as required. This is my second 4x5 Norma now have two, plus a 5x7 Norma and an 8x10. One of the 4x5s will stay on the Norma Copy Stand/Overhead Shooting Table.

    This one is a shelf queen, a few small scrapes, but used little and basically stored for sixty years. Probably my cleanest Norma but does need a good cleaning, and could use a new bellows, big tear can be repaired with 3M black teflon tape for now. Shortly I will send multiple 4x5 Norma tapered bellows to www.custombellows.co.uk and they will make authentic replacements. Overall Norma is basically ready to use right now. I am delighted.

    Great deal at $220.
    Last edited by Daniel Unkefer; 22-May-2020 at 06:14.
    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
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  8. #18
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: SINAR Norma: Now I get it!

    Bernice - tapered bellows tend to have less flare than box bellows. Although tapered is mandatory with 5x7 and 8x10 configurations, it was replaced after the Norma series with a box bellows on 4X5's. But one can still fit the original Norma tapered bellows on later 4X5's if they can find one in good shape. I kept a box bellows for sake of a lens compendium shade, which Sinar makes easy by means of a rod and clip system, which you no doubt have too. Flare has become a non-issue for me even with 8x10 lenses with huge image circles on 4x5 film, unless I deliberately want it (don't laugh - printed a couple of those kinds of shots yesterday, but I'd term it selective glare at a certain point of the scene, generally the horizon, and not overall washout. I'm quite an admirer of the ability of 19th C photographers to tastefully obtain a sense of atmosphere and distance in their shots).

  9. #19

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    Re: SINAR Norma: Now I get it!

    Yep, tapered bellows DO have lower flare than the current straight box bellows. Suspect these went out of production due to cost involved with making a proper tapered bellows. For decades, used a Norma 5x7 bellows, it was GOOD, nicely tapered, with elastic inside to help retain it's shape as it was extended-compressed, for flexi and longer than the later Sinar 5x7 bellows which is made of some hard-stiff non-natural material. What is nice about the Sinar system, swapping out bellows take flipping a few latches and in not too many seconds later the bellows is off ready for a different bellows.

    Carry both the standard tapered bellows and a bag bellows in the Sinar Norma outfit. Which bellows is used depends on what is needed.




    Bernice

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Bernice - tapered bellows tend to have less flare than box bellows. Although tapered is mandatory with 5x7 and 8x10 configurations, it was replaced after the Norma series with a box bellows on 4X5's. But one can still fit the original Norma tapered bellows on later 4X5's if they can find one in good shape. I kept a box bellows for sake of a lens compendium shade, which Sinar makes easy by means of a rod and clip system, which you no doubt have too. Flare has become a non-issue for me even with 8x10 lenses with huge image circles on 4x5 film, unless I deliberately want it (don't laugh - printed a couple of those kinds of shots yesterday, but I'd term it selective glare at a certain point of the scene, generally the horizon, and not overall washout. I'm quite an admirer of the ability of 19th C photographers to tastefully obtain a sense of atmosphere and distance in their shots).

  10. #20
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: SINAR Norma: Now I get it!

    I do admire Sinar Tapered Bellows and use a very good one

    The Sinar Hood system is a good use of not perfect bellows
    sin eater

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