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Thread: HP5+ and Pyrocat HD in a Jobo CPP3

  1. #1

    HP5+ and Pyrocat HD in a Jobo CPP3

    I'm trying to work out my error in metering or processing. I shot 5 8x10 sheets of HP5+ at 200 ISO yesterday. I then ran them at 68˚F in a 3005 drum for about 7.75 minutes, 50 RPM. I typically spot metered the shadows and closed down 2 stops or if I felt the light was very even I used my incident meter. I mixed up the Pyrocat HD at 1:1:100 and made 1L.

    My results are some very thin negatives with almost no shadow information at all. There was a mix of snow and ground for sure. But I was never using the snow as a target with my spot meter, more like darkened tree trunks. And I didn't think my incident would be thrown off by the snow. I was focusing at distances no less than 20 feet, so bellows factor should have been no big thing.

    Just very weird as my metering errors when they happen are usually not on EVERY sheet, and usually not so far off. Are my times correct for Pyrocat? I pulled them off of the massive dev chart and adjusted for rotary.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Oct 2015

    Re: HP5+ and Pyrocat HD in a Jobo CPP3

    Hard to tell about the bellows factor as you don't mention what lens was used; focusing at "no less than 20 feet" with a 600mm lens is something very different than the same with a 240mm. But, let's say you did everything right...based on my many years of experience with Pyrocat-HD, I'd guess your developer has gone awry. At this point you may be thinking... Wait, this is fresh stuff that I just bought from the Formulary. No guarantee. Quite a few threads around the 'net regarding potentially bad Pyrocat from the Formulary. I can't confirm this because I always mix my own.

    Oh, and I forgot... Isn't 50RPM the speed you'd run for any "normal" developer? Staining developers should be run at the slowest speed available.
    Last edited by Alan9940; 27-Jan-2020 at 14:05. Reason: Forgot something

  3. #3

    Join Date
    May 2006

    Re: HP5+ and Pyrocat HD in a Jobo CPP3

    Has your Pyrocat stopped working? Usually thin negs are a sign it is no longer working properly. If you have a scrap of exposed film but undeveloped try making up 200ml and processing it as you would normally. It should go almost black if it is working correctly if it doesn't build density ( think highlights) then your part A is no longer good.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    North Dakota

    Re: HP5+ and Pyrocat HD in a Jobo CPP3

    Look at the negatives and tell us if they are underdeveloped or underexposed.
    "My forumla for successful printing remains ordinary chemicals, an ordinary enlarger, music, a bottle of scotch - and stubbornness." W. Eugene Smith

  5. #5

    Re: HP5+ and Pyrocat HD in a Jobo CPP3

    I was shooting with a 360 6.8 and a 240 5.6. I think the negatives are probably under exposed but also possibly the developer has gone. I think I should just stick to using my normal XTol replenished when it comes to sheet films, and leave the staining developers to roll films where the degree of enlargement is so much higher.

    I made some test exposures today and they came out perfectly using XTol and roughly the same techniques.

  6. #6
    Andrej Gregov
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Seattle, WA

    Re: HP5+ and Pyrocat HD in a Jobo CPP3

    Couple possible issues:

    1. Processing 5 sheets of 8x10 in a 3005 drum in 1lt of Pyrocat 1:1:100 chemistry is likely not enough chemistry to cover that amount of film. It would likely be better to go with 2:2:100 in 1lt of chemistry if you want to process 5 sheets at a time. You could probably get away with 3 8x10 sheets in 1lt of 1:1:100 dilution.
    2. This has been a raging debate in the forum as of late, but based on my experience, using liquid Pyrocat HD chemistry from Formulary can cause thin negs depending on age of the chemistry. I would use either Bostick & Sullivan Pyrocat HD or mix with raw chemicals yourself.
    3. While I don't think this is not a factor in your case, you should be turning down the rotation speed of your drum to somewhere between 25-35 on your CPP3. If you are following Sandy's instructions for processing Pryocat HD in drums, he recommends the slowest setting. In the CPP3, I personally think the slowest setting is too slow. But slower than 50 would be better to slow down oxidation and staining of the negs.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Suwanee, GA

    Re: HP5+ and Pyrocat HD in a Jobo CPP3

    Is dilution critical for rotary if you go over the required minimum amount of developer(within reason)? I would think you want to prevent oxidation of the developer so would use something like 50A+50B to 1 liter for 5 8x10 sheets for such a short processing time under 8 minutes. or 10/10/1000 per 8x10, or possibly 10/10/500.
    Adventure is worthwhile in itself. ... Never interrupt someone doing what you said couldn't be done. -- Amelia Earhart

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    The Highlands of Scotland

    Re: HP5+ and Pyrocat HD in a Jobo CPP3

    I would agree with the collective sounds as if your developer has oxidised.

    I had similar problems with Pyro HD and resolved it by using a 2+2+100 (1+1+50) dilution in my 2500 tanks.


  9. #9

    Join Date
    Sep 2004

    Re: HP5+ and Pyrocat HD in a Jobo CPP3

    Your time developing at that dilution is not right in my experience. I always use 2:2:100 with Pyrocat HD and I always use the slowest speed on my Jobo, 7 1/2 minutes should yield a negative with good density.

  10. #10

    Re: HP5+ and Pyrocat HD in a Jobo CPP3

    Re my rotation speed, I was just a bit worried that I wasn't going to get a full rotation if I went any slower.

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