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Thread: Enlarged Film Negatives Process?

  1. #11

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    Re: Enlarged Film Negatives Process?

    Drew, the new Bergger print film is a game-changer for me!

    Looks like it is available from 4x5 up to 20x24. This means I can now take my 4x5 in those places where I simply can't pack my 8x10 gear and be able to make 8x10, 11x14, 16x20, 20x24 platinum and silver gelatin contact prints. I NEED some of this new print film...

    We need to figure out how to buy it in the USA. Bergger, where can we buy ???

    Here are the links:

    https://bergger.com/nos-produits/fil...printfilm.html
    https://bergger.com/media/wysiwyg/Fi...ET_10_2019.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Bergger is releasing a new large-sheet film for copy applications. I haven't studied it in detail, but the info is on their site. Some people use affordable lith film, but that's a somewhat unpredictable pain it the butt.

  2. #12
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Enlarged Film Negatives Process?

    Bergger USA is now set up to sell direct. I don't know if this new product is in stock yet.

  3. #13

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    Re: Enlarged Film Negatives Process?

    I just talked to USA rep and he said it will be available in the USA in Q2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Bergger USA is now set up to sell direct. I don't know if this new product is in stock yet.

  4. #14

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    Re: Enlarged Film Negatives Process?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Bergger is releasing a new large-sheet film for copy applications. I haven't studied it in detail, but the info is on their site. Some people use affordable lith film, but that's a somewhat unpredictable pain it the butt.
    Lith film is ideal for enlarging negatives if one uses a very soft-working developer. These must be mixed immediately prior to use,and are not available commercially. I have somewhere between 200 and 300 using this material. When I was at the college I taught the method about every other year and students were able to master it somewhat easily.

  5. #15

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    Re: Enlarged Film Negatives Process?

    Thanks Jim. Would you mind sharing your process so we can learn from you?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Noel View Post
    Lith film is ideal for enlarging negatives if one uses a very soft-working developer. These must be mixed immediately prior to use,and are not available commercially. I have somewhere between 200 and 300 using this material. When I was at the college I taught the method about every other year and students were able to master it somewhat easily.

  6. #16

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    Re: Enlarged Film Negatives Process?

    The written instructions are too lengthy to print here. Basically I use D-23 , LC-1., or LC-2. These developers were introduced in the “The World Journal of Post-Factory Photography” which is no longer available. Lith film is used as both the inter-positive, and new negative. So called Divided D-23 is ideal because it is the only developer I have found which doesn't have to be used as single shot in this process.
    Richard Sullivan in his book, “The New Platinum Print”, says that a good diapositive is both over-exposed and underdeveloped so that it shows dark highlights and weak shadows. This is good information to implant in your mind as you learn this process. HL are controlled by exposure,and shadows by development.
    Using the diapositive to make the new negative is easier than making a print, IF YOU MADE A GOOD DIAPOSITIVE! A good diapositive will contain all the necessary information so that a negative can be printed at any desired contrast. Don’t forget that in this case you print for the shadows (the thinner areas of the negative), and alter the highlights with development. You must also remember, that you’re making a negative, not an inter-positive. This new negative will have contrast, not be flat like the inter-positive.
    AS Franklin Jordan said “I’ll take your word for how dumb you are, but even at that, you can learn to make a good copy negative in one evening.”
    Good Luck! and don't give up easily.

  7. #17

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    Re: Enlarged Film Negatives Process?

    Very helpful Jim, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. I made notes of your tips.

    Which Lith films did you use to make the inter-positives and new negatives with? I would like to see if they are still available to try since you had good success.

    I have used both D23 and Divided D23, so that is an easy win. I have all the necessary chemicals on hand already.

    Thanks again, Jim.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Noel View Post
    The written instructions are too lengthy to print here. Basically I use D-23 , LC-1., or LC-2. These developers were introduced in the “The World Journal of Post-Factory Photography” which is no longer available. Lith film is used as both the inter-positive, and new negative. So called Divided D-23 is ideal because it is the only developer I have found which doesn't have to be used as single shot in this process.

    Richard Sullivan in his book, “The New Platinum Print”, says that a good diapositive is both over-exposed and underdeveloped so that it shows dark highlights and weak shadows. This is good information to implant in your mind as you learn this process. HL are controlled by exposure,and shadows by development.

    Using the diapositive to make the new negative is easier than making a print, IF YOU MADE A GOOD DIAPOSITIVE! A good diapositive will contain all the necessary information so that a negative can be printed at any desired contrast. Don’t forget that in this case you print for the shadows (the thinner areas of the negative), and alter the highlights with development. You must also remember, that you’re making a negative, not an inter-positive. This new negative will have contrast, not be flat like the inter-positive.
    AS Franklin Jordan said “I’ll take your word for how dumb you are, but even at that, you can learn to make a good copy negative in one evening.”
    Good Luck! and don't give up easily.

  8. #18
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Enlarged Film Negatives Process?

    If you try Aritsta Otho Litho (now generation four perhaps?) try HC-110 1:15 from stock 1:3. Less fog than certain other options. People get away with Lith film, but it's miserable for high-quality critical duplication work (rather unpredictable). The Arista product is thin with a deliberate texture, which not only prevents Newton Rings, but allow efficient vac draw down, which is a plus. What I recommend is making the lower-contrast interpositive on something a lot more controllable like Tmax or FP4 by contact, and then enlarging that to the full size new negative on whatever.

  9. #19

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    Re: Enlarged Film Negatives Process?

    Thanks Drew. It seems the more I learn about the various options for making enlarged negatives, it sort of comes down to a couple of things.

    1 - If you go with the Ortho Lith film route for the inter-postive and the new enlarged negative, the process is reasonably simple, but the film is thin, difficult to handle, etc. With no pratical experince, I can't comment on contrast control, etc.

    2 - If you use a film like FP4 or T-Max for the inter-positive and new enlarged negative, then you have to use a reveral development process for the inter-positive which requires the very nasty sulfuric acid which is not only undersirable to handle, but requires a lot of hoops to even get according to Photo Formulary website. You have to send in your ID and a form for the DEA, etc. That just seems really undesirable to me on every level.

    Am I missing someting or have anything incorrect in the above two points?

    The new Bergger print film that will be available very soon seems to be a lot more simple because you can use regular film or developer chemcials to process and for me, I could technically even use the print film in the camera for my still life. Who cares if it is ISO 3 because my subjects don't move. With that approach, I could expose the print film in the camera and then put that in the enlarger to make the bigger negative on a quality film like FP4 and process normally. If I didn't want to use the print film in the camera, I would just treat the print film like a print and project a negative on to the print film to make the positive and then contact print that to a high quality film like FP4 and process with normal chemicals.

    Like just about anything, there are a set of pros and cons to manage. I just want to make sure my thinking is correct in the above.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    If you try Aritsta Otho Litho (now generation four perhaps?) try HC-110 1:15 from stock 1:3. Less fog than certain other options. People get away with Lith film, but it's miserable for high-quality critical duplication work (rather unpredictable). The Arista product is thin with a deliberate texture, which not only prevents Newton Rings, but allow efficient vac draw down, which is a plus. What I recommend is making the lower-contrast interpositive on something a lot more controllable like Tmax or FP4 by contact, and then enlarging that to the full size new negative on whatever.

  10. #20
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Enlarged Film Negatives Process?

    No reversal needed. It's a 2-step, 2-sheet of film process. A negative of a negative is a positive, or in this case termed an interpositive or diapositive. You first make this interpositive, preferably by contact on something a lot more predictable and flexible to development than lith film, and then enlarge that interpositive onto lith film or whatever for sake of the full-sized printing negative.

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