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Thread: Archival Rating of The New Gen 5 Ilford RC Multigrade Deluxe Papers?

  1. #21
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Archival Rating of The New Gen 5 Ilford RC Multigrade Deluxe Papers?

    I print on plastic quite a bit. Decades of Cibachrome work, with hundreds of them still looking like they mere made yesterday, and now Fujiflex. Those are on extremely stable polyester, just like high-quality sheet film base but thicker. But RC is on paper with a thin semi-permeable outer plastic sandwich. I do all my b&w work on fiber-based paper. I'm not trying to imply anything negative about RC b&w except that it's not suitable for drymounting; but RC will probably never lose it's reputation with collectors or archivists as an unwanted step-child. They too prefer a track record versus so many projected "hundreds of years" of some marketing BS coefficient.

  2. #22

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    Re: Archival Rating of The New Gen 5 Ilford RC Multigrade Deluxe Papers?

    Based on the responses and my own research, it appears that is no current and third-party research regarding permanence of RC papers.

    In a digital world, I am not surprised.

    I did pick up some new knowledge from the group here like the Ctein book which is a gold mine and some other good stuff too. I think all the issues dating back to the beginning of RC paper in the 70s and 80s have long been solved and the real issues with RC are the media and this simply can't get solved. I think I know enough of the answer to help me with my approach for my customers which is what started this research to begin with.

    I guess there really isn't anything else to say unless someone knows of a resource that has recently tested RC paper for permanence?

  3. #23

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    Re: Archival Rating of The New Gen 5 Ilford RC Multigrade Deluxe Papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by LFLarry View Post
    Based on the responses and my own research, it appears that is no current and third-party research regarding permanence of RC papers.

    In a digital world, I am not surprised.

    I did pick up some new knowledge from the group here like the Ctein book which is a gold mine and some other good stuff too. I think all the issues dating back to the beginning of RC paper in the 70s and 80s have long been solved and the real issues with RC are the media and this simply can't get solved. I think I know enough of the answer to help me with my approach for my customers which is what started this research to begin with.

    I guess there really isn't anything else to say unless someone knows of a resource that has recently tested RC paper for permanence?
    RC base paper goes back much further then the 70s. We used it in the AF in the early 60s! And then there was also stabilization papers and processing in the later 60ís but that stuff was far from archival!

  4. #24

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    Re: Archival Rating of The New Gen 5 Ilford RC Multigrade Deluxe Papers?

    [QUOTE=LFLarry;1533682]Based on the responses and my own research, it appears that is no current and third-party research regarding permanence of RC papers.

    In a digital world, I am not surprised.

    I did pick up some new knowledge from the group here like the Ctein book which is a gold mine and some other good stuff too. I think all the issues dating back to the beginning of RC paper in the 70s and 80s have long been solved and the real issues with RC are the media and this simply can't get solved. I think I know enough of the answer to help me with my approach for my customers which is what started this research to begin with.

    I guess there really isn't anything else to say unless someone knows of a resource that has recently tested RC paper for permanence?[/QUOTE

    Careful with Barry Stein (Ctein). He is frequently a Don Quiote giving answers to problems that donít exist.

  5. #25

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    Re: Archival Rating of The New Gen 5 Ilford RC Multigrade Deluxe Papers?

    Okay, while that is interesting, it still doesn't address the core question about any current third party testing of RC paper permanence.

    We've all heard the horror stories about RC from whenever (50s/60s/70s/80s, etc), but the only individual testing that I could find was from Ctein. The anecdotal stories of "my RC pints still look like new from the 70s are great, but once again, none of this addresses the original question asked.

    I have to assume at this point there is no current testing being performed by a worthy and credible resource, which is fine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    RC base paper goes back much further then the 70s. We used it in the AF in the early 60s! And then there was also stabilization papers and processing in the later 60’s but that stuff was far from archival!

  6. #26

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    Hamilton, Canada
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    Re: Archival Rating of The New Gen 5 Ilford RC Multigrade Deluxe Papers?

    Don Quixote has gone to great lengths to add the x to his name and to have his previous name forgotten. I think it is unkind to frustrate that.
    Bill
    "There are a great many things I am in doubt about at the moment, and I should consider myself favoured if you would kindly enlighten me. Signed, Doubtful, off to Canada." (BJP 1914).

  7. #27
    Maris Rusis's Avatar
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    Re: Archival Rating of The New Gen 5 Ilford RC Multigrade Deluxe Papers?

    I used to worry about the archival permanence of photographs I made using fibre base and RC base papers. But I don't worry anymore.
    I just process and wash the papers according to the best archival practice, do confirmatory residue tests from time to time, store the pictures in a clean acid-free environment, and buy the best conservation framing if needed. That's the limited pact I make with collectors who buy my photographs.
    I consider I've done my bit. I can't do any more. What happens next in the mid to distant future is out of my hands.
    Photography:first utterance. Sir John Herschel, 14 March 1839 at the Royal Society. "...Photography or the application of the Chemical rays of light to the purpose of pictorial representation,..".

  8. #28

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    Re: Archival Rating of The New Gen 5 Ilford RC Multigrade Deluxe Papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by LFLarry View Post
    Okay, while that is interesting, it still doesn't address the core question about any current third party testing of RC paper permanence.

    We've all heard the horror stories about RC from whenever (50s/60s/70s/80s, etc), but the only individual testing that I could find was from Ctein. The anecdotal stories of "my RC pints still look like new from the 70s are great, but once again, none of this addresses the original question asked.

    I have to assume at this point there is no current testing being performed by a worthy and credible resource, which is fine.
    Canít say for other papers but I have 30x40 color prints mounted on canvas and laminated with Ademco that go back to the early 70s that have been hung where the sun shines and are yet to fade. They were printed on Kodak RC paper and then the emulsion was stripped off the RC base and then mounted on artist canvas that has a gesso coating. The emulsion was stripped by first applying the Ademco laminate to the print in an Ademco hard platen press, then peeling the emulsion and laminate from the RC base and then using Ademco double coated laminate between the bottom of the stripped print and the canvas and mounting them together in the hard platen press.
    Unlike a Seal type press the entire mounting process takes place in the press rather then under weight outside the press.

  9. #29
    Moderator
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    Re: Archival Rating of The New Gen 5 Ilford RC Multigrade Deluxe Papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by LFLarry View Post
    I have to assume at this point there is no current testing being performed by a worthy and credible resource, which is fine.
    To my knowledge, this is correct.

    In addition to the discussion so far here and at Photrio, you may find this thread of interest:

    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...erimental-data

  10. #30
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Archival Rating of The New Gen 5 Ilford RC Multigrade Deluxe Papers?

    Maris makes good points

    My now 22 year old fiber prints hot mounted on high end matboard stored with interleaving flat stacked in archival boxes, look exactly as i remember

    Moved 4 times with 5 years of no temp/humidity control in Illinois, cold to hot with high humidity

    I also have 1000's of loose family prints stored willy nilly since 1895, most are fine

    My Polaroids have faded, slides fine

    When I found my 22 year old prints in cold shed storage, I let them warm for 48 hours inside the double storage box
    sin eater

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