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Thread: Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850

  1. #11
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850

    100% crops of the Provia images



    Howtek 8000 HiResolve on top, Epson V850 on bottom

    To see at same scale display the Howtek image at 150% and the Epson at 100%. As you can see the Howtek is better. This would be the same result if I posted up the tiff/psb files of these images instead of jpgs, but the files would be huge if I did so.
    Last edited by Steven Ruttenberg; 10-Jan-2020 at 23:13.

  2. #12
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850

    Well, good! I'd be shocked if the Howtek wasn't significantly better than the Epson.
    May tomorrow be a better day.

  3. #13
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850

    Thanks. I have the Nikon Coolscan 4000, need to get the slide adapter and the reel adapter. Had those when I originally owned one a long time ago. The adapters though are not cheap and would cost like 800 bucks for both or more. Didn't consider the V, I'll have to look at it as well as the Pakon scanners.

  4. #14
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850

    Steve, I have problems seeing the difference. That's good because I'm thinking of upgrading from the V600 to the 850 for my new 4x5 photography.

    Are you sure the units are doing some adjustment behind the scenes. When I scan 120 and 35mm film on my Epson V600, the range is very short until I work with Levels (black and white points) in post processing. That requires shutting of ALL auto adjustments during the scan. Your posted pictures look like some adjustments were done.

  5. #15

    Re: Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850

    Are you sure those are really 100% crops from a 4000 ppi scan? You should be able to see the film grain pretty well defined. What scanning software and what scanning settings did you use?

  6. #16

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    Re: Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850

    Would it be possible to see a best rendition comparison of shadow and highlight areas?

  7. #17
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatchian View Post
    Are you sure those are really 100% crops from a 4000 ppi scan? You should be able to see the film grain pretty well defined. What scanning software and what scanning settings did you use?
    Yes, those are 4000dpi scans. We had to use a different aperture to avoid the grain becoming so pronounced it looked like digital noise (ie, chose the aperture manually instead of letting the software choose the aperture). The owner of the company who did the scans for me is using DPL software. He scanned at 4000dpi, when you look at the image as scanned it shows 4000dpi.

  8. #18
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Steve, I have problems seeing the difference. That's good because I'm thinking of upgrading from the V600 to the 850 for my new 4x5 photography.

    Are you sure the units are doing some adjustment behind the scenes. When I scan 120 and 35mm film on my Epson V600, the range is very short until I work with Levels (black and white points) in post processing. That requires shutting of ALL auto adjustments during the scan. Your posted pictures look like some adjustments were done.

    There is no adjustment. I do linear raw scans which means no adjustments made by scanner, no gamma curve applied etc. It is a wysiwyg scan. All differences are simply due to different hardware between the machines ie, halogen vs led, spinning drum vs stationary image, etc.

  9. #19
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Michael View Post
    Would it be possible to see a best rendition comparison of shadow and highlight areas?

    Here is a dropbox link to the actual files. Epson files that are at 3200dpi were scanned at 6400dpi and binned to 3200dpi. This was done because you can better detail than if you scanned at 3200dpi. One thing to notice is on the color neg files, the Epson Scan gives a fairly translucent border (ie, the orange mask is washed out) and the Howtek has the orange mask just as you see it on the actual neg. The only way to get that from the Epson is to scan it as a positive or an image.

    All the Howtek scans are at 4000dpi since the DPL software won't allow anything between 4000 and 8000. You either get 4000 or 8000 at that point. 8000 would mean you cannot save as a linear raw tiff because the file size would be too large and require compression and the DPL software apparently cannot perform a binning operation.

    The gamma cure for all of this is linear (ie, slope of 1) or as close to that as possible, so when you open up in whatever software you use, that needs to be set to 2.2. For me using ColorPerfect it does this automatically when I do the conversion. If you do conversions manually you will need to set this manually before conversion.

    Feel free to use these images to experiment, I just ask that if you are posting up you attribute them to me. Not that these are awesome images or anything.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c0m37v6pb...2NiY-T4Fa?dl=0

  10. #20
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Howtek 8000 Resolve to Epson V850

    I have found that many out there have an unrealistic expectation of what a drum scanner can do. One comment I hear often, especially on photography forums/sites other than here is the drum scan should make the flatbed look awful (paraphrase) and they are shocked when the differences are subtle, like in shadow areas and fine detail on the edges, gradations, etc. For some reason, they have this idea that a drum scan provides detail unheard of and then become disappointed when they see it doesn't and start talking something must have been done wrong if the drum scan is not light years ahead of the flatbed. I was even in that camp until I started researching this topic for the last year.

    What I have found is that in one aspect the drum scanner is much better, it provides that last 10% that is beyond a flat bed scanner. But unless you're looking for it or you are a consumer of the image, not the producer, you will not consciously know the differences. Your eye/brain just knows there is something different, maybe better in the image. If I did a side by side comparison and said nothing, I highly doubt anyone could say which was drum scanned and which was flat bed scanned.

    I am getting the drum scanner for that last 10%. Not because it is the holy grail of scanning and will produce images that are radically superior to a flatbed. I love my Epson and will not part with it, but if I need that extra 10% that is where the drum scanner will come in. Especially with 8x10 because the Epson has a fixed focus and aperture whether 4x5 or 8x0 scanning. 4x5 I can at least adjust the height of the holder to get better focus, 8x19 it is what it is. The drum scanner lets me choose aperture, set focus etc regardless of film size.

    I will be posting up a wetscan version of the b/w of Alstrom Point in the near future once I receive that file from the owner of the company.

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