Rodagon-G 360 for enlarging 5x7 12 times

[Drew Wiley]

No, no, no, Bob ... The Apo Nikkors are better. I have not only proven that to myself hundreds of times over again, but nearly all the big pro labs once in business around here preferred them to Rodagon G's for mural work. And their into their own by f/11 clear down. The f/22 specification for process use specifically is for sake of standardized
exposure protocol, not for reasons of inferior performance at somewhat larger or smaller apertures. I've got a whole set of these things, along with quite a few Rodenstock official enlarging lenses, and except for focus brightness, would rate the Apo Nikkors superior in every paramater, including better than my beloved Apo Rodagon N's, necessary in shorter focal lengths. I'll leave it to your to describe the longer Apo Rodagons themselves once marketed for graphics rather than enlarger applications. But I think you're showing a bit of brand loyalty prejudice against Japanese optics not shared by many West Coast users. Apo Nikkors were considered the cream of the crop here, with the sole exception of extremely expensive Apo El Nikkkors, the Rolls Royces.

[Tin Can]

Good to know Drew, I suspected my El-Nikkor 240 was my best enlarger lens.

[Bob Salomon]

No, no, no, Bob ... The Apo Nikkors are better. I have not only proven that to myself hundreds of times over again, but nearly all the big pro labs once in business around here preferred them to Rodagon G's for mural work. And their into their own by f/11 clear down. The f/22 specification for process use specifically is for sake of standardized
exposure protocol, not for reasons of inferior performance at somewhat larger or smaller apertures. I've got a whole set of these things, along with quite a few Rodenstock official enlarging lenses, and except for focus brightness, would rate the Apo Nikkors superior in every paramater, including better than my beloved Apo Rodagon N's, necessary in shorter focal lengths. I'll leave it to your to describe the longer Apo Rodagons themselves once marketed for graphics rather than enlarger applications. But I think you're showing a bit of brand loyalty prejudice against Japanese optics not shared by many West Coast users. Apo Nikkors were considered the cream of the crop here, with the sole exception of extremely expensive Apo El Nikkkors, the Rolls Royces.

No, I was telling you that Apo Rodagon lenses longer then 180 were process lenses. I was not comparing brands. Also, are your shorter Apo Rodagon lenses the N or the non N versions? There is a world of difference.

I guarantee you that for every lab you know or knew there are far more high end labs not using the Nikon lenses and were using the Rodagons. We sold them to hundreds of labs and military and industrial users all over the USA. Plus many for machine vision applications like the post office scanning envelopes for routing.

BTW, it’s not brand loyalty, I also sold lots of Schneiders, Komuras and Nikkors. I did work for EPOI.

[Drew Wiley]

Mine are Apo Rodagon N's, Bob, up to 150. I don't have any longer Apo Rogadons per se, which certain others have used as enlarging lenses, esp 180's, so can't comment on those. My 180 is an ordinary Rodagon. I highly respect your own experience and opinons, but you were obviously selling a European option, whereas certain other concerns out here were strictly pushing Nikon process lenses, which certainly seemed more common in California, meaning the higher grade 4-element lenses. I've never even seen one of their cheaper line of process lenses like used on compact stat cameras - I assume most of the ones in use were rebranded Rogonars, or something analogous 3-element. Machine optics etc is a whole other topic. But a lot of this is basically overkill talk - which is better? - a Rolls or a Bentley, a Ferrari or a Maserati, cause it's hard to find a driver worthy of either, and I'll never be able to afford a recycled rear bumper to any of them. Likewise, it's a darn rare negative that will worthily test the real distinctions between these various top-end lenses. Workable magnification ratios are important.

[chris77]

i have tested the rodagon 210 vs apo ronar (240) apo germinar (240 and 300) and the rodagon had better sharpness and contrast.
thats what i found out for myself in a perfectly aligned setup doing 12 times enlargement from 5x7 inch.

[Bob Salomon]

Mine are Rodagon N's, Bob, up to 150. I don't have any longer Apo Rogadons per se, which certain others have used as enlarging lenses, esp 180's, so can't comment on those. My 180 is an ordinary Rodagon. I highly respect your own experience and opinons, but you were obviously selling a European option, whereas certain other concerns out here were strictly pushing Nikon process lenses, which certainly seemed more common in California, meaning the higher grade 4-element lenses. I've never even seen one of their cheaper line of process lenses like used on compact stat cameras - I assume most of the ones in use were rebranded Rogonars, or something analogous 3-element. Machine optics etc is a whole other topic. But a lot of this is basically overkill talk - which is better? - a Rolls or a Bentley, a Ferrari or a Maserati, cause it's hard to find a driver worthy of either, and I'll never be able to afford a recycled rear bumper to any of them. Likewise, it's a darn rare negative that will worthily test the real distinctions between these various top-end lenses. Workable magnification ratios are important.

I’m the wrong one for that car analogy. My class in high school had 32 guys, no girls. Among those 32 were David Ogilvy whose father wrote the Rolls tag line about the loudest noise in the car was the clock. And Luigi Chinitti, Jr whose father raced for Ferrari and then became the owner of North American Ferrari. Luigi Jr. (Coco) took the business over from his father and was one of the designers of 2 Ferrari limited editions. One was the station wagon and the other the 3 seater with the driver in the middle. He sold both of them from his Greenwich showroom but that middle seater is no longer street legal over here.

One of the other guy’s father was a Mercedes factory racer until he got banned for running someone off the road in a rally.

David sometimes drove a Bentley to school while Luigi would sometimes drive a Ferrari. I drove a 49 Studebaker or a 51 Chevy or a 52 VW! I usually didn’t park in the senior lot and only on the street!

[Drew Wiley]

Wow. Off topic, but I once worked for a man who had almost 400 Euro race cars in his collection, along with a full-time mechanic, detail man, and warehouseman. But he always drove a beat up old T-Bird convertible with a leaky canvas top to work, so he wouldn't be suspected of being rich and get mugged. And the fellow who gave me some of my photo lab equip owns huge swaths of commercial and prime residential real estate in several cities around here, plus multiple restaurants and resorts, whole sections of downtowns, but still always drives the same battered up old VW van with flaking paint for the same reason.

[Duolab123]

I've done 60" wide prints from 5x7 using a 180mm f/5.6 Companon-S, stopped down to f/11 - and get sharp grain to the edges. Light source is a Heiland VC LED, powered down enough to give me 20 to 40 second(ish) green light exposures, plus 15 to 30 second (ish) blue channel exposures, which allows enough time to do my typical dodge/burn routines.

Chris...seven seconds? Are you masking these...or do you have really fast hands?

Heiland light source on a Zone VI type 1 or 2 enlarger? ? I have a Zone VI type 2, with the last version Calumet VC cold light run through a Metrolux II timer. Works great (primarily 6x17 roll film) There's a really crazy part of me that wants the LED head so I can make 5 foot long color prints. I don't think I'm that crazy. My normal lens for 6x17 is a 180mm El Nikkor.

[Bob Salomon]

Wow. Off topic, but I once worked for a man who had almost 400 Euro race cars in his collection, along with a full-time mechanic, detail man, and warehouseman. But he always drove a beat up old T-Bird convertible with a leaky canvas top to work, so he wouldn't be suspected of being rich and get mugged. And the fellow who gave me some of my photo lab equip owns huge swaths of commercial and prime residential real estate in several cities around here, plus multiple restaurants and resorts, whole sections of downtowns, but still always drives the same battered up old VW van with flaking paint for the same reason.

My mother’s family were in the transportation business, they started with cartage and then became wagon dealers. They were the CT dealer for Conestoga Wagons, they then became truck dealers in the very early 20th century. They then became Studebaker Packard dealers before switching to Desoto Plymouth. In 56 my grandfather retired and rented his dealership to Edsel rather then become the VW dealer for Bridgeport, CT. His brothers did switch to VW for New Haven.

However my family were publishers. However I never got to take advantage of those car deals!

Sorry, Clydesdale not Conestoga. They were also the National and White truck dealers.

[John Layton]

Heiland LED VC with Zone 6 type 2 - for prints up to 30x40 from 5x7, using a 150mm G-Claron at its ideal aperture of f/22. For 40x60's...I've cobbled together a horizontal enlarger which utilizes the same Heiland light source, but this time using a 180mm Companon-S at f/11. The G-Claron for this size print did not cut it (a bit out of its "sweet-spot" magnification-wise), even at its ideal f/22 aperture - but the Companion-S works wonderfully here. Cannot imagine using a 360 to go this big from 5x7 - logistics would be quite challenging!