Rethinking my 4x5 Field Camera choice

[Andrew Plume]

Hi

Some excellent (and as would be expected) replies on here to the OP's initial question

I've owned a number of Cameras from 4 x 5 to 11 x 14 during the past twenty odd years, I should,..........err..........by now have fully latched on to my needs etc but sometimes it's far from easy. The Wisner's, Tachi's etc are all/can be very beautiful but on the whole (particularly for 4 x 5) they come with what I see are very small lens boards. Unless one can get their board drilled for a larger lens, you are potentially stuck with the Copal 0-3 type boards. Potentially that's fine for the more recent shuttered lenses but 'problems' start when one wants to use/experiment with older barrel lenses where the rear threads are anything and everything far from the norm, even if they come with a suitable flange...................

So where am I going with this post.............? I've recently decided that it's practicality rather than beauty and the important issues (to me) are (a) lens boards (and their ability to accommodate odd sized lenses); and (b) all Camera movements that are feasible. A Camera must be able to accept as large a lens board as is possible and although the OP prefers not to use a Monorail, I really believe that he would be best served by buying, either a Sinar F1 or F2. Possibly one of the lightest around which can accept large lens boards (imo) with countless accessories and with the ability to move up to 5 x 7 by substituting a bellows and back. That would be all of the movements catered for and with the addition of:-

http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/ac.../irislensboard

mounted on a Sinar size board all of the odd thread size lenses can pretty well be catered for. And not least there are also the standard Sinar Copal sized boards too

Good luck and regards

Andrew

[EdC]

Hi

Some excellent (and as would be expected) replies on here to the OP's initial question

I've owned a number of Cameras from 4 x 5 to 11 x 14 during the past twenty odd years, I should,..........err..........by now have fully latched on to my needs etc but sometimes it's far from easy. The Wisner's, Tachi's etc are all/can be very beautiful but on the whole (particularly for 4 x 5) they come with what I see are very small lens boards. Unless one can get their board drilled for a larger lens, you are potentially stuck with the Copal 0-3 type boards. Potentially that's fine for the more recent shuttered lenses but 'problems' start when one wants to use/experiment with older barrel lenses where the rear threads are anything and everything far from the norm, even if they come with a suitable flange...................

So where am I going with this post.............? I've recently decided that it's practicality rather than beauty and the important issues (to me) are (a) lens boards (and their ability to accommodate odd sized lenses); and (b) all Camera movements that are feasible. A Camera must be able to accept as large a lens board as is possible and although the OP prefers not to use a Monorail, I really believe that he would be best served by buying, either a Sinar F1 or F2. Possibly one of the lightest around which can accept large lens boards (imo) with countless accessories and with the ability to move up to 5 x 7 by substituting a bellows and back. That would be all of the movements catered for and with the addition of:-

http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/ac.../irislensboard

mounted on a Sinar size board all of the odd thread size lenses can pretty well be catered for. And not least there are also the standard Sinar Copal sized boards too

Good luck and regards

Andrew

Thanks, Andrew! I appreciate the comments. Interestingly enough, I used to own a Sinar F1. I presently have an Arca-Swiss Discovery as my monorail. I have taken this out in to the field, but that is a bit of a slog, to put it nicely. Right now, I don't have any barrel lenses, but do have some older lenses like a 10.75in Dagor, and 16.5in Artar, both of which are set up with Technika lens boards. So, I have some versatility there, which is appreciated. So far, I've not been a heavy user of longer lenses with my film cameras, or even digital, for that matter.

Ed

[Andrew Plume]

Thanks Ed, very grateful

Best regards

Andrew

[Bernice Loui]

Ed, regardless of what camera is decided on it will always be a set of trade-off. There is no ideal camera that will meet every image making needs. Size-weight-bulk is a given aspect of the sheet film image making endeavor.

That said, over the decades, there have been many cameras-lenses (from wood and metal fold ups to a host of monorail cameras and a few odd ones) and all related used with the idea one of them will be "best". This never happened, so a deal was made.... Sinar Norma which fit well with the image making needs.


IMO, if you're into hiking long distances a Sinar Norma (fits very well with the rest of the Sinar system from F to P and much more) is likely not a good choice due to size-weight-bulk. While a fold up field camera is likely a far better choice, it's capabilities will be limited. This IS the reality and trade-offs that must be carefully considered for any camera. This is why images to be made first, then lenses to achieve this with the camera that fits most being the last choice.

If you're deep into wide angle images, a wide angle specific camera could be a better answer than a fold up. These tend to be smaller, lower weight, more portable, far easier to use with wide angles lenses than a fold up field camera.

Don't forget tripod stability is a must. There is no escaping the size-weight-bulk of a GOOD tripod, then add film holders, dark cloth, light meter, GG magnifier and all related. It all adds up to not a small package with the camera of choice being only some part of the whole system.


Bernice

[Vaughn]

Right on, Bernice. Field cameras are field cameras...not designed for old brass monster lenses.

I'd keep the field camera and just get adapter boards for the other cameras to take the Technica boards of the few lenses to be used with the field camera. That is a sweet little camera.

[neil poulsen]

Absolutely right, Neil! This is what I'm trying to do.

With so many shops either closing, or carrying minimal large format gear (let alone finding someone who knows the merchandise), tapping in to a resource like this forum is incredibly helpful, and greatly appreciated. Personal research is important, but there is no substitute for people sharing their experiences.

THanks,

Ed

My point of decision in a choice of camera came to whether I needed a flat-bed, or a rail camera.

Wide-angle is very important to me. I've tried multiple flat-beds, Deardorff, a Wista wood camera, a Wista SP, a Kodak Master 8x10 and a 2D, etc. With all of these, the camera contortions needed for wide and super-wide angle lenses became apparent, and definitely irritating, to me. For example, I refuse to use a camera that requires one to incline the bed in order to achieve rise.

It's true, there are negatives to rail cameras; they can be heavy, and they don't collapse into a small enough space. In the 90's, I found an Arca Swiss Classic F at a swap meet that was inexpensive. So over the years, I've been able evolve this camera to one that's relatively light-weight, and one that also compacts well when folded. For example, I shortened the bench to 8 inches, it uses the lighter-weight, earlier rails, and it now has a 6x9 front that is substantially lighter-weight. I've customized it in other ways to make it my ideal camera.

Have you thought about a Linhof Technikardon camera? It's a little heavier than some of the flat-beds. But its ease of use compared to flat-beds more than compensates for the additional couple of pounds of weight. And, it compacts well.

Another possibility is the more recent Toyo cameras, that are quite light-weight and have expandable rails. (I forget the model name of this camera.) Isn't there also a Toho 4x5 that's a serious, light-weight 4x5?

And I believe, the conveniently-sized, Linhof Technika boards can be used with all of these cameras. (Two dead birds lying on the ground.)

For sure, a rail camera was the way to go for me.

[CreationBear]

Another possibility is the more recent Toyo cameras, that are quite light-weight and have expandable rails.

Ah, given the OP's comments, I was thinking of the Toyo VX125 as well...it folds up to 12"x9"x5" with the two short extension rails left off. (IIRC, I believe there are Toyo/Linhof lens board adaptors floating around as well.)

[Drew Bedo]

I am using a little Wista-made Zone VI . It is light. It takes RToyo/Linhoff lens boards. I also have a Kodak 2D in 8x10. This is not a museum quality display piece and usually has an adapter lens board mounted. This allows me to mount any of the lenses that are set up for the Zone VI.

Look for a combination of 4x5 and 8x10 cameras that will allow something like that sort of commonality.

[Greg]

For years backpacked a 4x5 SInar Norma with a couple of lenses in an early 1970s Dana backpack. Camera was folded flat and went inside a custom padded case. Lenses, meter, WA bellows, and holders in protective wraps. Was on the bulky side when compared to a field camera outfit, but very doable even on long daily hikes. Actually when compared to 3-4 day backpacking trips, the pack was lighter. Never found a good way to carry the tripod though. Tried lashing it to the side of the Dana, but the pack wasn't rigid enough stabilize the tripod. My lashing system, in retrospect, probably wasn't the best. Minor White and Fred Picker, to name a few, used a 4x5 Sinar Norma. Wonder how they transported their Norma for any long distance?