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Thread: Starting with ULF

  1. #11

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    Re: Starting with ULF

    Quote Originally Posted by pkr1979 View Post
    How does people develop these large negatives… in trays? There is a 20x24" tank that might fit.
    The simplest solution is using tray development, this 11x14" paper safe was sold for $18:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Place emulsion up, you make the development with lights open, then close lights and move the sheet to another tray with the stop bath and after 30s you may do the rest lights open, and while fixing/washing you can develop next sheet, so you may process 4 to 6 11x14" sheets in one single hour, with the jobo regular procedure it will take way more.

    Also with tray development you may agitation as a control factor, with reduced agitation you may compensate extreme highlights.

    I use this way for 8x10, I put my hands inside xtol, but one may use nitrile gloves if using less skin friendly chem.

  2. #12
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Starting with ULF

    Pere, you always suggest paper safes

    I worry PAPER SAFES may become rare

    and using them for tray development may ruin them for their original purpose and then be discarded into our ever increasing landfill stream

    they are not recyclable!

    the good thing is, they are still available new

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...Safe_16_x.html

    I have new and old paper safes and use open trays in full dark as most people do...
    sin eater

  3. #13

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    Re: Starting with ULF

    Quote Originally Posted by pkr1979 View Post
    I also have a Jobo CPA2, but will have to get bigger tanks if moving up from 810. I would also have to get trays and lightning source for contact prints.
    Tray processed my 11x14 negatives till a few years ago. Had always wanted to switch to processing my 11x14 negatives using JOBO drums but couldn't find a "large format sheet film drum" a JOBO #3027 for processing 11x14 negatives FS anywheres. Took a chance and acquired a JOBO #3062 drum, which JOBO recommended for only processing (2) 11x14" prints. Found it to work fine for processing 2 11x14 negatives at a time. I believe I once read a post by Oren Grad that he also uses a JOBO #3062 to process his negatives, but maybe wasn't him that posted that, not sure. Anyways, a while back seriously considered acquiring a 16x20 camera which was up at auction. Researched out acquiring a JOBO #3028 large format sheet film processing drum for 16x20, and was quoted a hefty 4 figure price so just passed up on that whole endeavor. 11x14, safe to say, is the largest format that I will ever use. Never was able to find out what was so special about JOBO's #3027 and #3028 large format sheet film drums, except that the film had to be "loaded on a custom built insert and then placed into the drum" per my out dated JOBO catalog.

  4. #14
    jp's Avatar
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    Re: Starting with ULF

    For film, Ilford has an annual special order window for unusual sizes. If you want to play/learn and or don't mind the look xray film is common in 14x17 and can be cut down under safelight conditions to smaller sized if needed.

  5. #15

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    Re: Starting with ULF

    B+H almost always has 11X14 Ilford HP5 in stock.

    Don't use this format all that much these days...but when I do, I'll typically use my 305mm (most recent design) G-Claron - a moderate wide angle for this format which seems to cover well at infinity, although I will typically either use back (base) tilt or, if a front axial tilt I'll make sure to drop the lens a bit to ensure infinity coverage. The 305 is also a great lens for near life size to life size close ups without running out of bellows extension. For awhile I made good use of a Kern (Swiss) built 14 inch Goerz Blue Dot Trigor, which (for me) was sublime.

    I tray process 11X14...using Pyro, Pyrocat, or HC-110 (depending on the image) and contact print onto VC silver. Used lots of AZO back in the day and loved it!

    Camera is home made, but has been seriously gutted to save weight - to the point where its now almost unusable. Hmmm...maybe its time to talk to Richard (Ritter)!

  6. #16
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    Re: Starting with ULF

    Jobo drums: I use the 3062 and 3063 drums, *without* the special sheet film inserts that Jobo used to sell. WARNING: there have been reports that the ribs in the drum walls can result in uneven development with pyro developers. I've used only standard developers like D-76 or Ilford DD-X.

    Storage sleeves: polypropylene or polyester (much more expensive!) sleeves are available to accommodate most ULF sizes so long as you don't insist that the sleeve match the exact size of the negative (for example, you can use 16x20 sleeves for 12x20 or 14x17 negatives).

    Contact printing frame: I just use a large slab of glass. Every spring-back frame I've ever tried, in any size, produces florid Newton's rings in my darkroom.

    For me, handling very large trays for printing is the biggest hassle in the darkroom. In mine, 11x14 trays are no problem, 16x20 is do-able but a nuisance, 20x24 would require heroic measures and I've never tried it.

    Film: Ilford FP4 Plus and HP5 Plus are available in many ULF sizes, and Delta 100 in a more limited range, by annual small-quantity special-order program (if you're willing to buy a few thousand dollars' worth at a time, you can probably special-order them at other times too). 11x14 HP5 Plus is often available from stock at B&H, occasionally dealers who have participated in the annual special order have a few extra boxes on hand in one size or another. Fotoimpex offers ULF sizes of Adox CHS 100 II by special order and sometimes from stock. I think Bergger Pancro 400 is available in some ULF sizes. Some Kodak films are available in a few ULF sizes by special order. The minimum order amount is somewhere north of $10,000, but Keith Canham periodically organizes group orders; email him, or keep an eye on his Facebook page for news on which emulsions/sizes he's working on.

  7. #17
    LF/ULF Carbon Printer Jim Fitzgerald's Avatar
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    Re: Starting with ULF

    Quote Originally Posted by pkr1979 View Post
    Hi all,

    And thanks alot for getting back to me. Lots of useful information here... from not so costly lenses to negative files. And I agree, the mundane is just as important as the fun in a process like this.

    Vaughn, as to why, you and Jim responded to another thread I started (regarding PQ Universal) and your carbon printing workshop in Yosemite came up and it made me curious (I live in Oslo, Norway and are married with two small children - so if my wife will permit to travel across the Atlantic for that remains an uncertainty) - on both carbon printing and larger formats, since it is contact printing ULF would be cool. A question though, in your experience, are certain films particularly suited for carbon printing?

    I have pretty sturdy tripod I expect will do. I also have a Jobo CPA2, but will have to get bigger tanks if moving up from 810. I would also have to get trays and lightning source for contact prints. I have actually only developed E6 and black and white reversal myself… and I am a bit uncertain on what is the max size for a jobo tank on that machine. How does people develop these large negatives… in trays? There is a 20x24" tank that might fit.

    I had a quick look at B&H to check what they sold of film… and here is an issue… I like the aspect ratio of 810 (67 is my favorite)… but the BW film I prefer at the moment is Ilford Ortho Plus – which they only have in 12x20(?). If I went for 11x14 there is also color film available (no Ortho+ though), but if I choose to move up from 810 it would be cool to maybe go up to 14x17 or 16x20 (I don’t actually mind carrying my Cambo SC 810 around – but a 16x20 might be troublesome though?). What are the different sources for getting film for the different formats? I didn’t see any 14x17 film at B&H. Film availability is somewhat important.

    I'll think this through before I potentially step up :-)
    I can add my experience with ULF for you. I shoot 820, and 1417. I built and sold my 1114 to a good friend. I build all of my cameras so that is not an issue for me. When you go to ULF film holders are the expensive part. Richard Ritter builds beautiful holders. For example two 14x17 holders were $450.00 each USD. I found some Lotus 8x20 holders for a great deal 4 for $1,000.00. Holders are out there so you have to look for used one as they do come up but are not cheap. Film I have a freezer full of film in all sizes I shoot. Expired but still good, even my Bergger 200 dated 2006! Ilford's special order run is once a year and I would shoot FP-4 in ULF because it will build density in development better that HP-5. My opinion there. My main film in 8x10 is Efke 25 and it was discontinued some time ago but I have stock. Another film to consider for me in 14x17 was Shanghai 100. It ends up about $10.00 a sheet including delivery compared to FP-4 @ about $18.60 a sheet. I've only shot two sheets and they need a lot of development. I use 2:2:100 Pyrocat HD and develop for 14 minutes to build density for carbon printing. I tray develop one at a time. So I'd use either of these two films in ULF.

    Lenses for my 8x20 are simple. My go to lens is a Rodenstock Gerogon 360mm. F-9 great coverage and sharp as all get out. No shutter as I'm at F-45 or 64 so cap off cap on.

    A 24 inch Artar is great for 14x17 and again no need for a shutter. I'm a landscape guy so long exposures are the norm for me. My favorite lens for this format and my 8x10 is my Cooke Series XIV triple convertible. I use the 19" component on 14x17 or the 25Inch one.

    A good carbon fiber tripod and head is a must or a good Ries tripod. I have one of each. Carts and backpacks etc.

    My choice is 14x17 over 11x14. Image size in my carbon contact prints was the deciding factor. The 14x17 had more presence in my eye.

    That's my .02 hope it helps. I love my 20 pound 14x17, I mean I carry more than that weight with my 8x10 system! Good luck.

  8. #18
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: Starting with ULF

    Quote Originally Posted by pkr1979 View Post
    ...
    Vaughn, as to why, you and Jim responded to another thread I started (regarding PQ Universal) and your carbon printing workshop in Yosemite came up and it made me curious (I live in Oslo, Norway and are married with two small children - so if my wife will permit to travel across the Atlantic for that remains an uncertainty) - on both carbon printing and larger formats, since it is contact printing ULF would be cool. A question though, in your experience, are certain films particularly suited for carbon printing?
    ...
    Warning -- Jim is nuts. He builds his own ULF cameras out of walnut -- also tripods and even a lens barrel out of walnut. Actually he is a nice, talented guy -- he just likes walnut, a lot. My Ries A100/250 supports my 11x14 very well...and it is what Jim uses for his 14x17. Getting up to 16x20, one would probably seriously considering a two tripod system for field work.

    Films. One that does not work for most alt processes including carbon is TMax100. It has a built-in UV blocking layer and takes forever to expose through...TMax400 is fine and dandy, but on the expensive side...and I hate the concept of only 10 sheet boxes. I'll use just about any well made, consistant film. I have some HP5+ in 11x14 and will eventually will use it, but as Jim said, it does not build up contrast readily. So I will save it for particularly high contrast scenes that do not need much building up. FP4+ does expand nicely, and seems to do it very well, as the mid-tones seem to expand and keep up with the highlights. So FP4+ is an available excellent film...and hopefully the yearly sheet film order from Ilford continues.

    I have used the Ortho Plus in 8x10 and liked it, but it was a while back and I'd have to get use to it again. I was hoping it acted more like Kodak's Copy Film, which it did not, unsurprisingly...that's a fun film (I have a small supply of 8x10). I'll have to look into the special order to see if I can get Ortho Plus in 11x14. Tech Pan is another nice old film for contrast -- I have some 4x5 sheets still. General rule is the slower the film, the higher its inherent contrast...seems to be so. But any film is better than no film.

    I develop 11x14 in open trays...trays are 12x16. For 8x10s I use the 3005 Expert Drums. It would be fun to have some sort of monster drum that could do five 11x14s at a time. LOL!

    My second carbon workshop (after the one I gave with Jim) was a shorter version of the Yosemite experience and was given at PhotoCentral in Hayward, CA. The program there is run by Geir Jordahl and his wife Kate. Geir is from Bergen and is always showing me beautiful houses for sale over-looking fiords and such. If I wanted to be in the dark all winter, it would be tempting!
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  9. #19
    Foamer
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    Re: Starting with ULF

    Does a Ries J250 head support an older 8x10 field camera, such as Gundlach Korona/2D/Seneca?


    Kent in SD
    Qui sedes ad dexteram Patris,
    miserere nobis.

  10. #20
    LF/ULF Carbon Printer Jim Fitzgerald's Avatar
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    Re: Starting with ULF

    Quote Originally Posted by Two23 View Post
    Does a Ries J250 head support an older 8x10 field camera, such as Gundlach Korona/2D/Seneca?


    Kent in SD
    Yes it will. I use an old Ries C tripod with the J250 head with my 8x10. Camera is about 11 pounds and it is just fine.

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