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Thread: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Kit?

  1. #291

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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt View Post
    A fixed magnification rig does not require using a macro bellows unit. I use rigid extension tubes with integral mounting feet. The tube(s) are bolted to a long Arca plate along with the camera. This is simpler, lighter, and sturdier than any bellows unit. I do use my PB-4 to figure out extensions for given magnifications.
    I don't use a macro bellows unit either. I use a Sony E-mount to M39 focusing helicoid. Similar to the one shown here, except this one is E-Mount to 42. These are sold under several brand names, though they all may be made in one place. I purchased mine on AliExpress for $21, plus $4 shipping. I also have one for the Fuji GFX mount.

    https://www.amazon.com/Fotasy-Mount-.../dp/B01HG3RYR0

    Sandy
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
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  2. #292

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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    I will look for the tests but am pretty sure that once I made up my mind as to the difference they were trashed. I keep stuff like this on my desktop for a while but when it seems to have no more use it goes to the trash.

    In spite of the slightly superior results with the a7r iv I like to use the GFX 50R and constructed a horizontal stand to digitize very large format film with the Fuji. Will try to post a picture of the set-up later today. It required just a bit of work cutting and gluing.

    Sandy
    Attached are a few image files of the horizontal digitizing stand I built for scanning LF film with the Fuji GFX 50R. The construction of the stand was very simple, just required a bit of sawing and gluing, and cost nothing since I had all of the materials on hand. Basically the stand has a an upright frame that is attached at exactly 90 degrees to the platform that carries the bed on which the camera can be adjusted. It is attached to the platform with two L-brackets. I cut two slots in the frame, one for the LED light which is 14X22" in size, and another for a sheet of glass or acrylic that was cut to 18X22.5" on which to mount the negative. The platform is 20 inches in length, which allows me to position the camera on the bed from just an inch or so from the LED to as far as about 36 inches. This provides a lot of flexibility in use of lenses of different focal length.

    In the images I am using a Fuji GFX 50R attached to a Cambo Actus. I could of course use just the Fuji with a macro lens, or with any other camera, as the attachment of camera to bed is interchangeable via Arca Swiss plates. The adjustments (rise, fall, shift, tilt) of the Actus are therefore useful, but not necessary.

    In my initial use of this stand I digitized about two hundred 12X20" negatives with three-pass stitching via lateral shifting of 20 mm left and right with Actus, using a 55mm Apo Grandagon lens. With this type of stitching the negative remains in place and only the back of the camera is adjusted. If necessary I could move the camera closer and get a much higher resolution composite, but as is the three-pass stitching gives final file size of 45" x 27" at 300 ppi, which is quite a bit larger than I would ever plan to print. The digitizing and processing project took about ten days as I was able to comfortably shoot and process about 20 of the 12X20" negatives per day. The most time consuming part of the project involved processing of the image files in PS.

    In use I remove the glass or acrylic from the frame and position the negative on it with guides at the top of the frame so that it is centered with respect to the camera.

    The first actual print I made from this work is a 11.5" X 19.5" carbon transfer print of a photograph made in 2001 of Barrier Style pictographs located in the Book Cliffs on a panel in Utah near the confluence of Thompson Wash and Sego Canyon. The site, with very easy access, is off Exit 185 of I-70, about 25 miles east of Green River. This is just but one of a number of panels at the site. The lighting of the scenes was very low in contrast and my original negative basically difficult to impossible to print in carbon.
    Sandy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Thompson_Wash.jpg   12X20-3.jpg   12X20-2.jpg   12X20-1.jpg  
    Last edited by sanking; 28-Aug-2020 at 10:38.
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
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  3. #293

    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Sandy would you be willing to post a pic of your setup with the a7r4 w, 75mm apo rodagon, and E to M39 helicoid?

    or a link if it's already been posted before?

  4. #294

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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by Chester McCheeserton View Post
    Sandy would you be willing to post a pic of your setup with the a7r4 w, 75mm apo rodagon, and E to M39 helicoid?

    or a link if it's already been posted before?
    No problem.

    What you are looking at is the Sony a7r iv as currently mounted on a Kaiser copy stand set up to do 3-pass stitching of 5X7 film.
    From top to bottom.

    1. a7r iv
    2. Meike extension tube set, 10mm + 18MM
    3. Pixco M39 > Sony E mount helicoid focusing adaptor. It is actually a M42 > Sony E adaptor with 42mm to 39mm step-down ring.
    4. Apo Rodagon D 1:4
    5. Lens Hood

    Sandy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails a7r4-ApoRodagon.jpg  
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
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  5. #295

    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Cool – Thanks a lot

    did you tape the film down or have any sort of rig set up to hold the film flat for the 3 pass stitch? or have a rail that you slid the R4 on?

  6. #296

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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by Chester McCheeserton View Post
    Cool Thanks a lot

    did you tape the film down or have any sort of rig set up to hold the film flat for the 3 pass stitch? or have a rail that you slid the R4 on?
    Chester

    All of my 5X7 film has been stored flat in negative sheets and lies perfectly flat, emulsion side down, on the AN glass so there is no need for tape.

    I attach two pictures to show how I position the film. I have placed the LED unit more or less centered inside a box about two inches high. Over the top of the box I have a sheet of AN glass. For each scanning set up I have cut templates from thin black polystyrene plastic.

    Picture One shows the LED on, with a template cut for a full 5X7 shot of 5X7 film. To use, I just place the film inside the frame and shoot one 16-shot pixel shift shot. Very fast as it only requires converting the files to tiff with the Sony software, converting to negative and then final processing.

    Picture Two shows the LED on, with a template cut for 16 pixel, 3-pass stitching of 5X7 film. In this case the frame is cut to about 4.8" X 3.25", and I of course adjust the camera closer to the glass. As you can see, the frame is cut to allow the stitching to be done in the center of the image, so I just start with the top of the film adjusted inside the frame and make shot, then push it about three inches forward and make the second shot, and then finish by pushing the film into the open area at the top of the frame. There is no rail to guide the film but the sides of the frame serve this purpose. This method requires of course first converting the pixel shift files to tiff files, then merging the three image in PS, and then final processing. This requires quite a bit of time, as the merged files in RGB are over 2 GB so the Photomerge procedure needs quite a bit of RAM, and the faster the processor the better. But final image quality is excellent, very close to what I get with a Howtek drum scanner, and I could do ten images with the camera in the time it would take me to do one with the drum scanner.

    Hope this is all clear.

    Sandy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 5X7-One-Shot.jpg   5X7-3-Pass.jpg  
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
    [url]https://groups.io/g/carbon

  7. #297

    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Thank you!

    Really Appreciate you taking the time to go into that much detail. Seems to make sense, I'd have to get a bunch of that stuff, starting with the camera, to actually try it myself.

    The furthest I went down this route was shooting some old 35mm slides with a nikon es-1 adapter and some extension tubes, I found the corners soft, and that it was quite a bit of work to make the color "match" the slides. But I can see that this method has potential. And me dumping my R3 for an R4 seems a lot more plausible then getting an aztek/howtek setup the size of an industrial meat freezer.

  8. #298

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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by manfrominternet View Post
    Sandy, is there any way you could upload/send a sample of your test scans using the Sony a7R IV/75mm Apo Rodagon-D and the Fuji GFX 50R/120mm Pentax f/4 Macro?

    I'd love to see the difference between the two and how much better the Sony a7r IV setup is vs. the Fuji GFX 50R.
    Hello,

    I could not find that file, discarded it for sure. Would not have been very fair anyway since different lenses were used and the comparison of 120 Pentax Macro to Apo Rodagon D 1:4 would have probably tilted the comparison more toward the Sony.

    However, I do have a pretty good comparison between the Sony a7r iv , 3-pass with 16 shot pixel shift, compared to Fuji GFX-50R, 3-pass stitching. Both were done with the Apo Rodagon D 1:4 at f/5.6. This was made of a 5X7 negative of a scene that has a lot of pretty nice detail, probably shot at f/11 or f/16.

    If interested please let me know and I will send you a link to a Dropbox folder with the two files.

    I am attaching jpeg crops of an important area of the two files, not sure how much of the detail will actually show. The crop is in the center of the scene, just above the central fountain. My evaluation is that the Sony file is slightly better, but you can evaluate for yourself. The fuzzy area above the crest is probably a pigeon taking flight.

    Sandy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Crop-Fuji.jpg   Crop-a7r.jpg   MuseoPopular-GFX-50R-ApoRodagon.jpg  
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
    [url]https://groups.io/g/carbon

  9. #299

    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    Hello,

    I could not find that file, discarded it for sure. Would not have been very fair anyway since different lenses were used and the comparison of 120 Pentax Macro to Apo Rodagon D 1:4 would have probably tilted the comparison more toward the Sony.

    However, I do have a pretty good comparison between the Sony a7r iv , 3-pass with 16 shot pixel shift, compared to Fuji GFX-50R, 3-pass stitching. Both were done with the Apo Rodagon D 1:4 at f/5.6. This was made of a 5X7 negative of a scene that has a lot of pretty nice detail, probably shot at f/11 or f/16.

    If interested please let me know and I will send you a link to a Dropbox folder with the two files.

    I am attaching jpeg crops of an important area of the two files, not sure how much of the detail will actually show. The crop is in the center of the scene, just above the central fountain. My evaluation is that the Sony file is slightly better, but you can evaluate for yourself. The fuzzy area above the crest is probably a pigeon taking flight.

    Sandy
    The Sony file appears to have much better definition of fine details, but yes it is close. Only very large prints would likely show this difference. Still, I think there is just an advantage to true RGB capture. Even if it's not resolving more detail the noise floor is significantly lower. I have brought back wildly dense shadow areas with little noise from Provia originals.

    Plus downsampling can be a great tool too. If you take a normal capture, then a pixel shifted capture, once you downsample to the native size you will still see significantly more detail. Multi-shot is just so perfectly suited for scanning!

  10. #300
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Thank you Sandy for sharing this with us all
    2022

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