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Thread: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Kit?

  1. #71

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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    I reviewed the requirements of the original poster, and subsequent posts, and determined the following.

    1. The OP has a wide variety of formats and media, ranging in size from 4X5 to small format, and some color.

    2. The final goal of the OP is to make amazing large scale prints on the order 6’ x 8’, very roughly speaking.

    3. The OP already owns a good camera (a7r iii) for digitizing.

    Based on my own experience in scanning, which goes back more than two decades and includes use of Epson flat bed, professional high end flatbeds such as Eversmart, drum scanning, and digitizing film with an a7r ii and iv I would recommend the following.

    1. Since OP already owns a good camera the least expensive and most straight forward solution to high quality digitizing of the film is to buy a good macro lens and use the camera with a copy stand and led light box.

    2. To get the most from the 4X5 slides the OP will need to make at least 4-6 shots and stitch the results, and perhaps two shots with stitching with the medium format film. The a7r iii has pixel shifting but the end file size is still only 42 mp, not the 240 mp possible with the newer Sony a7r iv, or 150 mp with the Panasonic. However, having copied film with the a7r iv my opinion is that 4-6 shots with the a7r iii will give better results than pixel shifting, if getting as much information as possible from the original film is important, as it probably is if 6' X 8' prints are needed.

    3. For highest resolution the OP will need to use the macro lens at an aperture of f/4 - f/8. Beyond f/8 there will be diffraction which may reduce resolution below sensor potential, below f/4 plan of focus is highly critical.

    4. Using the lens at f/4 or less will require very precise focus, with slide or negative fluid mounted on glass, or stretched flat on AN glass. Emulsion should face the lens.

    The a7r iii of the OP is not very heavy so one probably can get by with a fairly duty light copy stand if budget is an important consideration.

    Sandy
    Last edited by sanking; 9-Nov-2019 at 13:02.
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
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  2. #72

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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    2. To get the most from the 4X5 slides the OP will need to make at least 4-6 shots and stitch the results, and perhaps two shots with stitching with the medium format film
    +1

  3. #73

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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by sperdynamite View Post
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/vt5u0skkqa...50010.jpg?dl=0

    I have no idea how to read this chart but it seems like I can see more than my printer was able to resolve. R3000 on it's highest resolution mode.
    OK, no objection, but as you only require that IQ level then you may save film by using a MF film back in your view camera, cost will be 1/8 and you will have the same print.

    When I spend a velvia sheet it's for a good reason.

  4. #74

    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    OK, no objection, but as you only require that IQ level then you may save film by using a MF film back in your view camera, cost will be 1/8 and you will have the same print.

    When I spend a velvia sheet it's for a good reason.
    Based on that argument you are saying that contact prints from 8x10s have no value? Also youíre the one that said it was so easy so how many megapixels am I resolving based on the chart you told me to print and photograph?

  5. #75

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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by sperdynamite View Post
    Based on that argument you are saying that contact prints from 8x10s have no value? Also you’re the one that said it was so easy so how many megapixels am I resolving based on the chart you told me to print and photograph?
    Law of diminishing returns.

    As you only take 30Mpix effective from the medium it has little importance if you shot 8x10" or MF, regarding on print IQ.

    Try it...

  6. #76

    Join Date
    Mar 2019
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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    I reviewed the requirements of the original poster, and subsequent posts, and determined the following.

    1. The OP has a wide variety of formats and media, ranging in size from 4X5 to small format, and some color.

    2. The final goal of the OP is to make amazing large scale prints on the order 6í x 8í, very roughly speaking.

    3. The OP already owns a good camera (a7r iii) for digitizing.

    Based on my own experience in scanning, which goes back more than two decades and includes use of Epson flat bed, professional high end flatbeds such as Eversmart, drum scanning, and digitizing film with an a7r ii and iv I would recommend the following.

    1. Since OP already owns a good camera the least expensive and most straight forward solution to high quality digitizing of the film is to buy a good macro lens and use the camera with a copy stand and led light box.

    2. To get the most from the 4X5 slides the OP will need to make at least 4-6 shots and stitch the results, and perhaps two shots with stitching with the medium format film. The a7r iii has pixel shifting but the end file size is still only 42 mp, not the 240 mp possible with the newer Sony a7r iv, or 150 mp with the Panasonic. However, having copied film with the a7r iv my opinion is that 4-6 shots with the a7r iii will give better results than pixel shifting, if getting as much information as possible from the original film is important, as it probably is if 6' X 8' prints are needed.

    3. For highest resolution the OP will need to use the macro lens at an aperture of f/4 - f/8. Beyond f/8 there will be diffraction which may reduce resolution below sensor potential, below f/4 plan of focus is highly critical.

    4. Using the lens at f/4 or less will require very precise focus, with slide or negative fluid mounted on glass, or stretched flat on AN glass. Emulsion should face the lens.

    The a7r iii of the OP is not very heavy so one probably can get by with a fairly duty light copy stand if budget is an important consideration.

    Sandy
    Sandy,

    Thank you so, SO much for your post. Literally 20 minutes before I even saw your post, I bought the following items from bhphoto:

    1.) Sigma 70mm f/2.8 DG Macro Art Lens (for Sony E-Mount) -- $469.00
    2.) Kaiser Slimlite Plano 5000K Battery/AC Lightbox (8 x 11") -- $88.88
    3.) Kaiser Repro Kid 23" Copy Stand Kit -- $156.00
    4.) Archival Methods Heavyweight Natural Cotton Inspection Gloves ó $11.95
    5.) Print File 9.5x12.5" Standard Proof Box (1" Depth, Black) (count 3) ó $23.85 NOTE: Iíll be using the bottom part of one of these sturdy proof boxes and flipping it over to cover the 8x11Ē Kaiser lightbox, both on top of the Kaiser copy stand. Iíll then cut a hole slightly smaller than 5x7Ē on this bottom part of the box so I can put this 5x7 anti-Newton ring glass on top of it:
    6.) scan-tech.net 5x7 ANR glass ó $56.00
    Then I will use the three lids of these archival boxes to cut masks that will cover the edges of the three different types of films I have: 4x5 and Medium Format 6/12 and 6/17. These lids should then fit snug over the bottom part of the box that has the ANR glass on top of it, which again will cover the Kaiser lightbox.


    Iíll upload photos of my setup once itís done.

  7. #77

    Join Date
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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by sperdynamite View Post
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/vt5u0skkqa...50010.jpg?dl=0

    I have no idea how to read this chart but it seems like I can see more than my printer was able to resolve. R3000 on it's highest resolution mode.
    Mark, sorry, until now I could not download and see the shot of the usaf 1951 chart.

    With a printed chart you have to place it at some 3m, for a test in macro conditions you should use a high resolution chart or a glass slide with well printed small elements. Anyway the image you show it's resolving 10 lp/mm, if the chart has been printed 100% size, but you have to frame the chart taking the size you want to scan.

    The SR1 is 8,368 x 5,584 , if the lens was ideally perfect this would deliver 8,368 x 5,584 x 0.8 x 0.8 pixels, this ends in 29,9MPix effective, (in the case that the lens is good enough to not be a limitation!), the 0.8 factor is "optimistic", real loss should be higher, just to give a number that your setup won't surpase with one shot (with pixel-shift). The 0.8 factor comes from Nyquist-Shannon criterion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquis...mpling_theorem , a good explanation on how this is applied to scanning can be found here:

    http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF2.html
    https://web.archive.org/web/20190707...ials/MTF2.html


    If you want I calculate the actual performance then shot the chart from (say) 3m, place it both in the center and in the corner of the image. Place a metering tape with big numbers visible under the chart to have a reference. We may guess that the Macro lens will also perform OK in macro conditions, but to check that well you need a USAF 1951 glass slide.

    I'd be happy to make those calculations, you may also use different apertures so you will know how much you can stop (for DOF) before diffraction harms.

  8. #78
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Jun 2015
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    New Jersey was NYC
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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by manfrominternet View Post
    Sandy,

    Thank you so, SO much for your post. Literally 20 minutes before I even saw your post, I bought the following items from bhphoto:

    1.) Sigma 70mm f/2.8 DG Macro Art Lens (for Sony E-Mount) -- $469.00
    2.) Kaiser Slimlite Plano 5000K Battery/AC Lightbox (8 x 11") -- $88.88
    3.) Kaiser Repro Kid 23" Copy Stand Kit -- $156.00
    4.) Archival Methods Heavyweight Natural Cotton Inspection Gloves ó $11.95
    5.) Print File 9.5x12.5" Standard Proof Box (1" Depth, Black) (count 3) ó $23.85 NOTE: Iíll be using the bottom part of one of these sturdy proof boxes and flipping it over to cover the 8x11Ē Kaiser lightbox, both on top of the Kaiser copy stand. Iíll then cut a hole slightly smaller than 5x7Ē on this bottom part of the box so I can put this 5x7 anti-Newton ring glass on top of it:
    6.) scan-tech.net 5x7 ANR glass ó $56.00
    Then I will use the three lids of these archival boxes to cut masks that will cover the edges of the three different types of films I have: 4x5 and Medium Format 6/12 and 6/17. These lids should then fit snug over the bottom part of the box that has the ANR glass on top of it, which again will cover the Kaiser lightbox.


    Iíll upload photos of my setup once itís done.
    How did you get #2 Kaiser slimlite for $88.00 I just tried to buy it and they wanted $109.95. Plus they didn't even have it in stock and was backordered. Please advise. Thanks.
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...k_battery.html

  9. #79

    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Here is a great recent example of Portra 160 scanned with the S1R in pixel shift. I processed this with Negative Lab Pro. I did NOT do any dusting yet however, so you'll see some of that.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/vfg0peyjoj...50008.jpg?dl=0

    This would print to about 37x46 at 300ppi. The level of detail is just tremendous, and NLP does this fantastic color conversion is just a few clicks. By the way I should note that NLP accepts scans from traditional scanners too. Many people are using it with Nikons, Epsons, one guy was using a drum scanner of which time I forget....

  10. #80

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    Re: Should I Drum Scan, X1 Flextight Scan, or use the Epson V850 w/Aztek Wet Mount Ki

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    How did you get #2 Kaiser slimlite for $88.00 I just tried to buy it and they wanted $109.95. Plus they didn't even have it in stock and was backordered. Please advise. Thanks.
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...k_battery.html
    Alan,

    I got it with my student discount promotion. If you're a student, I highly recommend signing up for it.

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