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Thread: Kit recommendations for a complete beginner

  1. #61

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    Oct 2019
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    Re: Kit recommendations for a complete beginner

    Quote Originally Posted by BertieWooster View Post
    Those look great! That makes me glad of my choices - I got my first pack of film a couple of days ago, and hope to take my first photo in the next few days.
    Thank you! I'm pleased that I didn't seem to make any gross screwups. I've only made contact sheets so far.

    I took a few more photographs today. I'm using my digital camera as a light meter and it's a pain in the butt, so since I value convenience, I think I'm going to move to an actual light meter soon.

    -- Mike

  2. #62

    Re: Kit recommendations for a complete beginner

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Please, let me ask some questions...

    How you get interested in film photography ?

    What do you find special in it ?

    Do you feel that you will continue shooting some film in the long term ?
    To be honest, I'd always thought that film was basically dead and that there was literally no advantage to using it, only disadvantages. But I've recently been buying and selling a lot of old cameras (going right back to the early pocket folding cameras) and I thought I'd try one of the folding medium format cameras I'd obtained. That was a disaster, since apparently one of the elements was missing from the lens. Then I decided to get a Mamiya C3 - which was also disaster because the lens suffered badly from separation (something the seller, a knowledgeable camera seller, somehow failed to notice).

    However, I got one really nice portrait out of it, taken in Winston Churchill's old study in Westminster, which was much nicer than the digital version I'd taken - there was just a different feel to the image, some sort of analogue quality. The colours (Kodak Portra) were amazing. So that inspired me to look at large format instead, partly for the huge increase in resolution that it offers.

    I watched a lot of YouTube, and videos like this really helped to make my mind up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKCZQjrRJak (especially because that's the type of photography I've traditionally done)

    I will continue with film in the long term, as long as I can get this camera working well and I get some decent images out of it. I never like to count my chickens. Scanning may be my next major hurdle - as well as trying to fix a problem with my front standard bearer which means it won't tilt upwards.

  3. #63

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    Re: Kit recommendations for a complete beginner

    Quote Originally Posted by BertieWooster View Post
    there was just a different feel to the image, some sort of analogue quality. The colours (Kodak Portra) were amazing.
    Thanks for that explanation.

    I'm a bare amateur, but I've always been amazed what Pros like you can do with a camera. I don't think photography is about analog vs digital, but my feel is that old good film offers an impressive set of tools for a good photographer, probably today it's difficult to use film professionally, but anyway let me point a list of top wedding photographers that are using film exclusively or a lot in their works:


    Josť Villa https://josevillablog.com/
    John Dolan http://johndolan.com/portfolios/marriage/
    Greg Finck http://www.gregfinck.com/
    Noa Azoulay http://www.featherlove.com/
    Erich Mcvey http://www.erichmcvey.com/
    Braedon Flynn https://braedonphotography.com/portfolio/Weddings/
    Liz Banfield https://www.lizbanfield.com/weddings
    Judy Pak http://judypak.com/the-details
    Sylvie Gil http://www.sylviegilphotography.com/
    Ryan Ray http://www.ryanrayphoto.com/
    Tec Petaja http://www.tecpetajaphoto.com/
    Elizabeth Messina http://www.elizabethmessina.com/#!/i...love/gallery/1
    Corbin Gurkin https://corbingurkin.com/
    Aaron Delesie http://www.delesieblog.com/
    Eric Kelley http://erickelley.com/portfolio
    Allan Zepeda https://allanzepeda.com/
    Heather Waraksa http://heatherwaraksa.com/
    Charlotte Jenks Lewis http://charlottejenkslewis.com/
    Leo Patrone http://www.leopatronephotography.com/
    KT Merry https://www.ktmerry.com/


    IMHO it's not about retro look, or not only about that, at least...

    Also film is still used for some movie shootings this 2019, with clearly superior results.


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  4. #64

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    Sep 1998
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    GA
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    Re: Kit recommendations for a complete beginner

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Thanks for that explanation.

    I'm a bare amateur, but I've always been amazed what Pros like you can do with a camera. I don't think photography is about analog vs digital, but my feel is that old good film offers an impressive set of tools for a good photographer, probably today it's difficult to use film professionally, but anyway let me point a list of top wedding photographers that are using film exclusively or a lot in their works:


    Josť Villa https://josevillablog.com/
    John Dolan http://johndolan.com/portfolios/marriage/
    Greg Finck http://www.gregfinck.com/
    Noa Azoulay http://www.featherlove.com/
    Erich Mcvey http://www.erichmcvey.com/
    Braedon Flynn https://braedonphotography.com/portfolio/Weddings/
    Liz Banfield https://www.lizbanfield.com/weddings
    Judy Pak http://judypak.com/the-details
    Sylvie Gil http://www.sylviegilphotography.com/
    Ryan Ray http://www.ryanrayphoto.com/
    Tec Petaja http://www.tecpetajaphoto.com/
    Elizabeth Messina http://www.elizabethmessina.com/#!/i...love/gallery/1
    Corbin Gurkin https://corbingurkin.com/
    Aaron Delesie http://www.delesieblog.com/
    Eric Kelley http://erickelley.com/portfolio
    Allan Zepeda https://allanzepeda.com/
    Heather Waraksa http://heatherwaraksa.com/
    Charlotte Jenks Lewis http://charlottejenkslewis.com/
    Leo Patrone http://www.leopatronephotography.com/
    KT Merry https://www.ktmerry.com/


    IMHO it's not about retro look, or not only about that, at least...

    Also film is still used for some movie shootings this 2019, with clearly superior results.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Itís not for a retro look. Itís for marketing. They sell their service on the basis that they use film so they are different.

    But maybe you might want to make a list of the top wedding/event shooters that use digital? Itís a far larger list!

    Let me tell you a little personal story. When my daughter was married a very famous pair of photographers, plus an assistant who paid them to assist, shot the affair. Their names were Monte Zucker and Clay Blackmore. Do a search to find out who Monte was and who Clay is.

    Monte was famous for not sending out proofs, he would only show the parents, grandparents and the celebrants the proofs in his studio.
    However, we were good friends and his studio was in Silver Spring, MD and we lived in Northern NJ so he made an exception and sent us the proofs. In those days most studios finished their prints with a spray of McDonald spray lacquer. So they all had to have a spray booth in the studio.
    We received the proof book and two days later Monteís studio and home burned down. Many rolls of negatives were destroyed in the fire or by the water to fight the fire, including ours! The only prints we, our daughter and son in law and his parents could get were copies of the proofs!

    The cause of that fire, and of several other similar fires at studios was that lacquer spray. Over time the spray built up a lacquer coating inside the spray booth and when the exhaust fan in the booth shorted out the flammable lacquer started a major fire!

    Had digital been available then this would not have occurred!

  5. #65

    Re: Kit recommendations for a complete beginner

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Thanks for that explanation.
    IMHO it's not about retro look, or not only about that, at least...
    For me, there has to be something 'different' about film, or it isn't worth doing.

    Ultimately, I can pick up one of my DSLRs and get completely sharp, high quality images even with an entry-level lens, and then colour it in Photoshop. The technology has come on so much that there's very little I can't achieve (on a technical level I mean) with my seven year old Nikon D800.

    I have to say though, I would never, ever shoot a wedding on film. Only the stuff I have the time to take great care over.

    Also film is still used for some movie shootings this 2019, with clearly superior results.
    The new Star Wars films look absolutely beautiful. I am in awe of how incredible the cinematography is. I recently started shooting some of my video work on film - although, so far, only in Super 8 format. I'm on the look out for a 16mm camera.

  6. #66

    Re: Kit recommendations for a complete beginner

    This is an example of what I mean when I talk about the 'feel' that a film camera can give (for various reasons). It's not a fair test, but it is still a reasonable example of the sort of difference I'm looking for.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #67

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    Re: Kit recommendations for a complete beginner

    Quote Originally Posted by BertieWooster View Post
    This is an example of what I mean when I talk about the 'feel' that a film camera can give (for various reasons). It's not a fair test, but it is still a reasonable example of the sort of difference I'm looking for.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sensors have an spectral sensisitvity that's good for all in general, but suboptimal for any particular situation

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    Human eye has adaptations on the fly that are difficult to emulate... with film you replace the sensor nature for each kind of scene, just by using one film or other. You won't make a good portrait with Velvia 50, but it rocks in landscape, in the same way never, never, never a DSLR will approach to Portra manificience for portraits because it has a dedicated spectral footprint for that, while DSLR relies in a color edition that won't restore the spectral richness the skin had, as this information was lost when the light spectrum was simplified into 3 digital values.

    A film advantage is that you have several spectral footprints you can load in your camera, digital color edition is not the same by far.


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    If you see spectral curves in film datasheets... this tells why each color film is a different beast, while dslr sensors are all mostly the same: good in general but not good at any specialized job. A creative color edition may mask that lack of excellence, but if you scratch a bit the paint then you find no gold under. Portra is pure Gold for portraits, in the right hands, of course.


    This is the skin spectrum:

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    In color photography we reduce a spectrum to three values (both with film and with digital), the way we make that conversion matters.


    The funny thing happens when shooting outdoors, under direct sunlight, Portra shines like the sun itself.

  8. #68

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    Re: Kit recommendations for a complete beginner

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    We received the proof book and two days later Monte’s studio and home burned down. Many rolls of negatives were destroyed in the fire or by the water to fight the fire, including ours! The only prints we, our daughter and son in law and his parents could get were copies of the proofs!

    The cause of that fire, and of several other similar fires at studios was that lacquer spray. Over time the spray built up a lacquer coating inside the spray booth and when the exhaust fan in the booth shorted out the flammable lacquer started a major fire!

    Had digital been available then this would not have occurred!
    You really think there are no photographers that lost everything in a software/hardware crash? Wow...
    Expert in non-working solutions.

  9. #69

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    Re: Kit recommendations for a complete beginner

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    It’s not for a retro look. It’s for marketing. They sell their service on the basis that they use film so they are different.
    Well, it's actually different, better or worse depending on personal opinions, but it's different.

    James Bond: Skyfall (2012) was shot digitally for first time in the franchise, with an inferior result, James Bond: Spectre (2015) was shot on film again. I bet that James Bond: No Time to Die (2020) will be shot on film again, we'll see...

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    Nobody (except me , I guess) buys a theater ticket because the movie was shot on film. If Star Wars 9 has been shot on film this is because technique and aesthetics. It's different.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    But maybe you might want to make a list of the top wedding/event shooters that use digital? It’s a far larger list!
    99.99% of the wedding portraiture is done today digital, for good reasons. But there is no doubt that in the top ranked Wedding Pros film has an extraordinary presence. In part this is because of California: it is populated with excellent imaging technicians (Hollywood industry) and because some popular photographers made a sound work, remarkably Josť Villa.

    There are many creative factors in wedding photography, but there is no doubt that those works crafted on film are technically superior, not speaking about sharpness, it's about tonal nuances, selective saturation and organic look. Also in the DSLR range we only have sharp lenses, for MF and up we have many optic resources.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Had digital been available then this would not have occurred!
    Bob, this was a funny story !! Thanks for sharing it! that lacker...


    I concede that a double SD is safer than film, but SDs can be lost or they can be also incinerated.

    We have the Risk Compensation Theory, which is quite interesting : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation

  10. #70
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Kit recommendations for a complete beginner

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Well, it's actually different, better or worse depending on personal opinions, but it's different.

    James Bond: Skyfall (2012) was shot digitally for first time in the franchise, with an inferior result, James Bond: Spectre (2015) was shot on film again. I bet that James Bond: No Time to Die (2020) will be shot on film again, we'll see...

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	197833

    Nobody (except me , I guess) buys a theater ticket because the movie was shot on film. If Star Wars 9 has been shot on film this is because technique and aesthetics. It's different.




    99.99% of the wedding portraiture is done today digital, for good reasons. But there is no doubt that in the top ranked Wedding Pros film has an extraordinary presence. In part this is because of California: it is populated with excellent imaging technicians (Hollywood industry) and because some popular photographers made a sound work, remarkably Josť Villa.

    There are many creative factors in wedding photography, but there is no doubt that those works crafted on film are technically superior, not speaking about sharpness, it's about tonal nuances, selective saturation and organic look. Also in the DSLR range we only have sharp lenses, for MF and up we have many optic resources.




    Bob, this was a funny story !! Thanks for sharing it! that lacker...


    I concede that a double SD is safer than film, but SDs can be lost or they can be also incinerated.

    We have the Risk Compensation Theory, which is quite interesting : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation
    My biggest gripe is when the theater often use bulbs that are so dim, daytime shots look like night. It drives me nuts. I complain to management and they ignore me.

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