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Thread: Glassless Negative Holders

  1. #1
    Eric Woodbury
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    Dec 2003
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    Glassless Negative Holders

    You all are a clever bunch. I'd like to make an 8x10, and other sizes, glassless negative holder. I had a Beseler 4x5 model, but it was a bit scary. I felt as though it might eat my negative. I have a 5x7 glassless holder that Witherill and I designed, but it is finicky. Is there some easy way to accomplish this problem? If it isn't easy to use, then it won't get used.

    Thanks for the ideas.

    BTW, my enlarger is a bit like that Johnny Cash song, "One piece at a time". It was born a Beseler, but the negative stage will never know that.

    Ugh!, what model is it?
    Well, It's a '49, '50, '51, '52, '53, '54, '55, '56
    '57, '58' 59' automobile
    It's a '60, '61, '62, '63, '64, '65, '66, '67
    '68, '69, '70 automobile.


    -e-

  2. #2
    Moderator
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    Re: Glassless Negative Holders

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Woodbury View Post
    I had a Beseler 4x5 model, but it was a bit scary. I felt as though it might eat my negative.
    I take it you mean the NegaFlat, and what you're trying to design is a carrier that will hold the negative in tension without chewing it up?

  3. #3

    Join Date
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    Re: Glassless Negative Holders

    Eric, I've made some prelimiar drawings for a glassless carrier, inspired by the Saltzman:


    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...=1#post1457311

    ... but since I'm operating a Durst 138 I feel less the need. The NEGA 138 carrier works really fine, I like its alignment adjustment, IMHO single problem would be when wanting to reverse the image, in that case the ANR glass would be in the wrong side...

    My view is that a glassless carrier is benefical if having to invert the image.

    I was planing a fix clamp in one side and an spring tensiones one in the other side...

    35mm is a particular case, as we can use perforations in the film.

    Still I realize that if a convenient/sound glassless carrier could be made this would be interesting for 8x10", so if/when you can post as sketch of your project I'll find it interesting.

  4. #4

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    Re: Glassless Negative Holders

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Woodbury View Post
    You all are a clever bunch. I'd like to make an 8x10, and other sizes, glassless negative holder. I had a Beseler 4x5 model, but it was a bit scary. I felt as though it might eat my negative. I have a 5x7 glassless holder that Witherill and I designed, but it is finicky. Is there some easy way to accomplish this problem? If it isn't easy to use, then it won't get used.

    Thanks for the ideas.

    BTW, my enlarger is a bit like that Johnny Cash song, "One piece at a time". It was born a Beseler, but the negative stage will never know that.

    Ugh!, what model is it?
    Well, It's a '49, '50, '51, '52, '53, '54, '55, '56
    '57, '58' 59' automobile
    It's a '60, '61, '62, '63, '64, '65, '66, '67
    '68, '69, '70 automobile.


    -e-
    Good luck with sagging and popping!

  5. #5
    Drew Wiley
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    SF Bay area, CA
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    Re: Glassless Negative Holders

    Saggen & Poppen - sounds like a Country-Western duo. I never liked squeaky fiddles, thumpin gut buckets, and glassless carriers going a-poppin'

  6. #6

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    Re: Glassless Negative Holders

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Good luck with sagging and popping!
    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Saggen & Poppen - sounds like a Country-Western duo. I never liked squeaky fiddles, thumpin gut buckets, and glassless carriers going a-poppin'
    Yes, we see the Saggen & Poppen when projecting slides. You are right, a good glassless carrier has to overcome that, if not... better using a glass carrier.

    If negative is well tensioned... What sagging?

    I'd say that both kodak/ilford polyester sheets will remain totally flat in a glassless carrier with a constant tensioning system.

    So we need:

    1) the negative has to be precision clamped in the borders and constantly tensioned by an spring.

    2) we should allow to get the stable temperature under illumination to not have a shift in the negative while exposing.

    3) illumination should be efficient to not generate unnecessary heat.


    From my DIY maker point of view and from point 3, a condenser type would be better because it's way more efficient with light power, but 8x10 condensers are very big, fortunately this days we have cheap/lightweight solar energy acrylic fresnels that work perfect as condensers. We also have cheap LEDs that do not generate Infrared and that are perfect to retrofit BW enlargers, avoiding the need to suppress IR in the light path.

    Of course if we cook a 8x10 negative under a 2kw diffuser and also not having an constant tensioning in the glassless then we'll get funny Saggen & Poppen, but IMHO today it's more feasible than ever making a flawless DIY glassless carrier, specially if we have/make an efficient illumination.

  7. #7

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    Re: Glassless Negative Holders

    Glenn Evans' spring stretching carrier seems the most elegant and simple to me, but it needs a diagonal film punch of the Condit type.

  8. #8
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Glassless Negative Holders

    Calumet made a simple 8X10 glassless holder

    A little tricky to use but they all are

    It doesn't use claws like their 4X5, is made of aluminum and supposed to get tighter as the alu heats up, I use it with cold heads

    I have 2 of them. The trick is to load it carefully and be aware of any wind, as just picking it up and putting it back down on a flat surface can disturb the tension. Move it slowly sideways only

    Also the Calumet 8X10 must be perfectly flat as manufactured. Don't buy an even slightly bent one, impossible to straighten

    I bought my 2 on this forum

    I recently found a NOS 4X5 NegaFlat, I also like them. Most are very beat up.

    I see Pere has used my Flickr pic Saltzman Stretcher by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr It's OK Pere, but one should state source (ok)

    Calumet 8X10 glassless by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr

    Detail by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr
    sin eater

  9. #9

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    Re: Glassless Negative Holders

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    Flickr It's OK Pere, but one should state source
    Randy, of course I stated the source, just below the image in my post there is the link to your post !

  10. #10
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Glassless Negative Holders

    Ok, I missed the link.

    Screen glare is my excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Randy, of course I stated the source, under the image in my post there is the link to your post !
    sin eater

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