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Thread: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

  1. #21

    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    fuegocito, what magnification did you shoot at?

    Mark, as peppers go #30 is soft everywhere. Just goes to prove that sharpness isn't everything.
    Hi Dan,

    I didn't exactly measure every thing out but if I remember correctly it was probably approaching and close to 1:1.

  2. #22

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by fuegocito View Post
    Hi Dan,

    I didn't exactly measure every thing out but if I remember correctly it was probably approaching and close to 1:1.
    Thanks for the reply. At 1:1, f/16 set is f/32 effective. I don't know how much you enlarged your crops, but at that effective aperture the diffraction limit is around 50 lp/mm, maximum enlargement that looks sharp is around 6x. This killed me when I was shooting fish, flowers and insects with Kodachrome 25. I couldn't get good 8x10s from my slides, the fine details weren't really there.

    My point is that y'r test isn't quite as informative as you hoped. Its real message is that diffraction is a killer when working close up.

  3. #23

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Dan, 50 lp/mm in a 8x10"... this is 500MPix effective, even with diffraction...

  4. #24

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Over the years specialized in Photomacrography and Photomicrography as a very lucrative side business. Principle camera (system) was a Nikon MULTIPHOT. My lens set comprised a 19mm, 35mm, 65mm, and a 120mm Macro-Nikkor. These were very specialized lenses. They now regularly go for 1-2K each, but if you really, really look around you can acquire them for a few hundred dollars (or less) each, from state/govt. surplus stores. Also used a 8cm and a 12cm f/4.5 E. Leitz Wetzlar Summar which seemed to defy the laws of diffraction when stopped down. Shot almost everything with the 4x5 format. For field work used a 30mm Topcor adapted to a Nikon mount. Tried several high end enlarging lenses (even some Apos) but none ever surpassed the image quality of those Macro-Nikkors, BUT THEY DID COME AWFULLY CLOSE. Also did some Photomicrography work using a Nikon Ske Microscope with epi illumination and an 8x10 Sinar Norma back custom mounted above it. Reversed cine/movie lenses amazingly also do work. Have used Switar lenses off a Bolex camera with excellent results. But in the end very much "you get what you pay for". Zeiss Luminars excellent optics for close-up work, but having that word "Zeiss" in their description just hikes up their price. Have used them (on loan) but just personally prefer my Macro-Nikkor lens set. Isolating the vibration from the shutter firing off something you have to consider. The Multiphot (camera system) has an isolated shutter. Lately have been going digital and using focus stacking to give me extended depth of field and also sharpness that is impossible to get by stopping down a lens and just making one exposure. Forgot Repro-Clarons which just might now be the best deals to be out there, and a lot of times you can find them in shutters.

  5. #25

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Dan, 50 lp/mm in a 8x10"... this is 500MPix effective, even with diffraction...
    Yeah, so what?

    The point of fuegocitos' test shots is that all of his lenses separated fine details equally well. And they did.

  6. #26

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Yeah, so what?

    The point of fuegocitos' test shots is that all of his lenses separated fine details equally well. And they did.
    Dan, those crops are 300 pix wide, so the full image (enlarged like the crops) would have 1500 pix wide, not covering a 2k monitor...

    This would deliver a 2MPix file for the ful image, way under worst smartphone around is able.

    We speak about 8x10" king size, so it would be nice to know if a fine 2m print would be superb...

    It is a very interesting side by side, but it not tells what it would happen if we use the 500MPix potential in the 8x10" negative to see in fact what's fine detail !!

  7. #27

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Dan, those crops are 300 pix wide, so the full image (enlarged like the crops) would have 1500 pix wide, not covering a 2k monitor...

    This would deliver 3MPix file, way under worst smartphone around in able.

    We speak about 8x10" king size, so it would be nice to know if a fine 1m print would be superb...

    It is a very interesting side by side, but it not tells what it would happen if we use the 500MPix potential of the 8x10" negative to see in fact what's fine detail !!
    Yeah, so what?

    This discussion is not about the wonders of 8x10, it is about which lens might meet the OP's needs well enough.

  8. #28

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Yeah, so what?

    This discussion is not about the wonders of 8x10, it is about which lens might meet the OP's needs well enough.
    hmmm... nothing wrong in knowing what IQ we have, from those crops OP cannot realize if a $1000 Makro-Sironar may be a better choice than a $180 Geronar. Me I'd go to cheaper choices than $180, but quality is quality.

    If we speak about 8x10" macro, why not mentioning IQ?

  9. #29

    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    My point is that y'r test isn't quite as informative as you hoped. Its real message is that diffraction is a killer when working close up.
    Well, all things being equal, camera, diffraction, operator error, scanner....the point is they would be more or less the same for every single lens in this test group. The idea of the test is find out whether a dedicated macro lens is head and shoulder above a regular non Macro lens, not how a lens might perform in an 810 or the sharpness or perceived sharpness in whatever viewing condition. I don't think you can say the test is a complete fail in that regard.

  10. #30

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by fuegocito View Post
    The idea of the test is find out whether a dedicated macro lens is head and shoulder above a regular non Macro lens
    The test would show it, but those scans can't. While diffraction limits performance to 50 lp/mm those scans limit performance to 3 lp/mm, if I calculated well.

    I don't say if all those glasses perform the same or not in practical situations, what I say is that in a 3 lp/mm scan for sure all will look the same.

    Anyway, sure that differences would be mostly seen with flat subjects...

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