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Thread: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

  1. #1

    8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    I am drawn to do more Macro woth my P2 8x10 and wonder which lens is suitable? Any experience with the Makro Sironar? Is the 210mm or the 300mm best? How about the Nikon ED macro lenses? Any help is welcome. With the winter coming I see nmore inside time doing photos.

  2. #2

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Torontoamateur View Post
    I am drawn to do more Macro woth my P2 8x10 and wonder which lens is suitable? Any experience with the Makro Sironar? Is the 210mm or the 300mm best? How about the Nikon ED macro lenses? Any help is welcome. With the winter coming I see nmore inside time doing photos.
    The question is "what magnification", so the ratio between object size vs image size.

    It is difficult for a lens to be very good at 1:1 and at 1:5 (imageSize : objectSize). You also may play 4:1

    If your shubjet is not flat you may have to stop a lot for DOF and then diffraction hides lens quality differences...


    Of course macro sironars are excellent, a cheap way to start is using an enlarger lens, for example a bare old Rodagon 210mm or 240mm that may cover from close enough subjects. This graph (https://www.largeformatphotography.i...=1#post1519773) shows what a enlarger lens would cover depending on magnification.

    Imagine that you want a high magnification, say image x5 larger than the object, in that case an optimal solution is a reversed 50mm Nikkor EL enlarging lens for 35mm film, that once reversed and close to object it covers 8x10 working at its sweet spot.

    If you are starting, play first with your yet owned taking and enlarging lenses, this would tell you what focal you want, and anyway lenses that are not for Makro may work as good when anyway you have to stop a lot for DOF through a 3D object, as in that situation it's diffraction what limits optical performance, rather than the lens itself.


    For 1:1 I'd use a long Rodagon R (not easy to find) or other Reproduction glass, for 1:4 I'd use an old Rodagon 240mm without letter, for 5:1 I'd use a Nikkor EL 50mm f/2.8 reversed. You would have no shutter, but this is not a problem i the studio as you can remove the cap and then you fire the strobes.


    If I was making a lot of macro shooting I'd find what advantages/cost would have a Makro Sironar, which are in shutter, usually.

    _______

    An important Macro factor is how a lens renders the Out Of Focus (bokeh) !!!!

    So when you know what focal/coverage you want then you should investigate what OOF nature you like, before spending big money.

  3. #3

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Many "standard" lenses are just fine for macro photography at lower magnification ratios, say up to 1:1. Sure a macro lens will deliver superior results, but if you're contact printing 8x10, these may be superfluous.

    What's important is that you have a focal length that allows you to work with bellows extension and subject-to-lens distance easily. I'd recommend starting with a focal length that is about half your maximum bellows draw or a bit shorter. The P2 goes to about 450mm I think, so a moderately wide standard lens, say in the ~200mm range would give you a range of magnifications up to life-size on the film.

    For closer work, consider lenses not intended for 8x10 that will still cover when extended way past infinity. Enlarging lenses in the 80mm - 150mm range leap to mind. You'll have to mount them on a board and use a lens cap for a shutter. The latter is usually not a problem when doing very close work, since the exposures tend to be longer than several seconds. If you use strobes, then just darken the room before removing the lens cap and firing the strobes. Re-cap and then turn on the lights.

    If I had lenses like the above laying around already, I'd try them out and see if I liked the results before shelling out for a new lens.

    Hope this helps,

    Doremus

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    I am saving my pennies for a Nikon ED210mm f/5.6 here in a brochere.

    Most likely I will buy from Japan as they seem to have a few and take very good care of their gear.

    I have had good luck with Nikon LF glass and their Copal shutters.

    I also plan to stay inside and warm soon...
    2022

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    To expand a little on what Doremus already said if you have one ready to hand and enlarging lens would be a good starting point. He didn't mention that for use at magnifications greater than 1:1 the lens should be reversed for best results. This has implications for which enlarging lenses to try.

    The shortest enlarging lenses that can be counted on to cover 8x10 at 1:1 have 150 mm focal length. Schneider has two, 150/5.6 Comparon and 150/5.6 Componon-S, that will fit #0 shutters. The 150/5.6 Componon might, but I have no documentation that says so. I mention these two because reversing lenses that fit #0s is easy, just swap the cells front to back. This can't be done with lenses in #1 because these shutters have different threading at each ends. I have no idea which sizes of shutter, if any, other makers' enlarging lenses' cells will fit.

    If you want to work below 1:1 you'll probably need a lens longer than 150 mm. Not directly relevant, but on 2x3 I like to use lenses that are normal to normal and a half for closeup work, roughly 1:8 - 2:1. 100 - 150 mm. For 8x10, that would be 300 - 450 mm.

    You might also consider a process lens in shutter. Apo-Ronars, G-Clarons and Repro-Clarons have been sold in shutter. All are symmetrical so don't have to be reversed for best results above 1:1. Be wary of Apo-Ronars in barrel since not all have cells that are direct fits in standard shutters. My two 150/9 Apo-Ronars are like that.

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    If you want to work below 1:1 you'll probably need a lens longer than 150 mm.
    Dan, or going shorter with the lens reversed... which is cheaper.

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Dan, or going shorter with the lens reversed... which is cheaper.
    Papi, you have it backwards.

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Papi, you have it backwards.
    No problem... What I do is attaching a filter size ring adapter to a lensboard, the adapter holds all the lens outside, so shutter and diafragm levers can be accessed, as in this case lenses are shorter and smaller it makes sense.

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    Papi, you didn't understand. A shorter lens will have less, not more, coverage given magnification. Reversing it won't change that.

    When working close up, we use short lenses when we want high magnification because other things equal a short lens needs less extension to get the magnification than a long lens. We can do this because coverage increases with magnification.

    We reverse lenses made for shooting a low magnification (large subject in front of lens, relatively small negative behind) when shooting at magnifications > 1:1 (small subject in front of lens, relatively large negative behind) to take best advantage of the lens' optimizations.

  10. #10

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    Re: 8x10 Macro Photography lens Question

    A Nikkor EL 50mm covers 8x10 at around 4:1, and if reversed it works at its sweet point...

    At lower magnification we may use say a componon-s 100mm, to cite two lenses I've tested reversed...

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