Focusing range of Goerz Dagor 305mm 6.8 for portraits?

[Pere Casals]

With a combined anastigmat I just measure from the aperture control ring to the ground glass. With a single anastigmat like a Single Turner Riech group I guess at halfway mid point of the lens glass. I don't know what the front is on a Symmar. Might be double. They weren't symmetrical like the G-Claron's.

OK, thanks!

[Jim Noel]

Some folk enjoy doing the math and enjoyment is what we're after, but your sitter may roll her eyes if you produce a slide rule and start doing calcs after you've told her to not move a muscle. Another way, I do it all the time, is to bring along a 6 foot tape rule with a millimeter scale. Measure the aperture opening. (just hold it out front) Then measure approx half way between front and rear elements to the ground glass. Off to the side is plenty good enough. 20mm hole and 540mm bellows; divide 20 into 540 = 27. You're at f27 = f22 1/2 on your meter. Now, if you like doing calc's and your sitter is also married to you and very patient, ignore me. Most folk do.

The last statement is key. If married for more than a few years, she may have far less patience for this. don't ask how i know.

[Bob Salomon]

1 : 1 or "life size" double the focal length. Example:

12" Dagor would need about 24" of bellows to image 1 : 1 or life size and there will be two f-stops of light loss.

Keep in mind if your portrait sitter is about 24" to the camera, consider how your sitter might feel about being this close to the camera and how would this portrait be lighted?

Typical 12" Dagor full aperture is f6.8, Optical performance happens at about f16, add two f-stops for light loss (1 : 1). This puts light at your portrait sitter at about f32 which will need to be achieved by light intensity or duration of exposure.

One more thing, sitter movement can be a problem. If duration of exposure is used any portrait sitter movement will result in blur. If a strobe is used, consider what happens to your sitters eyes and vision once that strobe goes flash.


Bernice

Since the 305 is a short normal for 810 when shooting a head that close you will have foreshortening. That means that things that are closer to the lens will reproduce larger then things further away from the lens. If head on that will result in a very large nose.
If shot from slightly above that will result in an exaggerated forehead and a larger nose. If from slightly below a larger chin. From a side a larger ear.
To prevent exaggerated faces you need a longer lens or shoot from further away.

[Mark Sampson]

Mr. Salomon's advice is very good here.
Look at the work of Chuck Close (paintings or photographs, doesn't matter) if you want to see what LF portraiture done close-up with a short focal length looks like.
It works for him, but shooting up your subject's nose has never appealed to me. (Must be my early training and practice as a commercial portrait shooter.)

[Pere Casals]

OP: a natural face perspective is obtained around 3m. We remember other people's faces like when they are at some 3m.

If you want that then prepare a well longer lens and bellows.

Otherwise Nose Jobs are not good or bad, YMMV.

Yousuf Karsh mainly used a Commercial Ektar 14" (around 360mm), but most of his work was not mug shots.

will have foreshortening.

Bob, let me add that we have consolidated scientific terminology for that: "Nose Job"

Look at the work of Chuck Close (paintings or photographs, doesn't matter) if you want to see what LF portraiture done close-up with a short focal length looks like.
It works for him, but shooting up your subject's nose has never appealed to me. (Must be my early training and practice as a commercial portrait shooter.)

In the modern times nose foreshortening is a general trend... because of smartphones.

Everyone likes the images he makes () and as smartphones are well wider than normal, best is liking the nose. Of course software can make a botched job to patch that.

When we send a selfie with WhatsApp... first the nose arrives and later comes the rest of the face.

hmmmm.... modern times.

Otolaryngologists sure are happy, beyond they sure like modern selfies, more and more people want to care his nose.


____________________________________________________________


OP: let me show you a kind of LF protraiture I like a lot (YMMV):



This shows some mastery, in focus-movements management, in illumination and in controlling film to render a 3D feel, the eye sees the depth, this is something I'm trying to learn (sorry if this was not asked and not wanted to know). Of course it's only a personal taste, nothing else.

[Bob Salomon]

OP: a natural face perspective is obtained around 3m. We remember other people's faces like when they are at some 3m.

If you want that then prepare a well longer lens and bellows.

Otherwise Nose Jobs are not good or bad, YMMV.

Yousuf Karsh mainly used a Commercial Ektar 14" (around 360mm), but most of his work was not mug shots.




Bob, let me add that we have consolidated scientific terminology for that: "Nose Job"





In the modern times nose foreshortening is a general trend... because of smartphones.

Everyone likes the images he makes () and as smartphones are well wider than normal, best is liking the nose. Of course software can make a botched job to patch that.

When we send a selfie with WhatsApp... first the nose arrives and later comes the rest of the face.

hmmmm.... modern times.

Otolaryngologists sure are happy, beyond they sure like modern selfies, more and more people want to care his nose.


____________________________________________________________


OP: let me show you a kind of LF protraiture I like a lot (YMMV):



This shows some mastery, in focus-movements management, in illumination and in controlling film to render a 3D feel, the eye sees the depth, this is something I'm trying to learn (sorry if this was not asked and not wanted to know). Of course it's only a personal taste, nothing else.

No, it is not a “general term”. It is a technical term. And the result of seeing it on a phone screen is very different then seeing it on an 810 contact or an enlargement.

[Pere Casals]

And the result of seeing it on a phone screen is very different then seeing it on an 810 contact or an enlargement.

Bob, I apreciate you add that nuance, but a nose job is a nose job, we have two kinds, with common cold or without it:


https://www.dxomark.com/xiaomi-mi-mi...camera-review/

[goamules]

Jim, why measure half way between the lens nodal and the ground glass? I always measure the entire distance.

[wallpaperviking]

Thanks so much for all your replies, greatly appreciated!

Any guesses as to what focal length might have been used for the sample image I originally posted? It is taken by Paolo Roversi and shot on 8 x 10 polaroid, back in the day when it was still produced.. I was under the impression he used a Goerz Dagor 305mm 6.8 by seeing images he has taken himself of his camera/lens setup but to be honest, he could be using anything....

I don't see an over exaggerated nose in the sample but maybe you guys do? The other thing would be to simply crop into a more "normal F.O.V" shot, essentially making it a longer" lens...

Could this be possible?

Thanks again!

[wallpaperviking]

Thanks so much for all your replies, greatly appreciated!

Any guesses as to what focal length might have been used for the sample image I originally posted? It is taken by Paolo Roversi and shot on 8 x 10 polaroid, back in the day when it was still produced.. I was under the impression he used a Goerz Dagor 305mm 6.8 by seeing images he has taken himself of his camera/lens setup but to be honest, he could be using anything....

I don't see an over exaggerated nose in the sample but maybe you guys do? The other thing would be to simply crop into a more "normal F.O.V" shot, essentially making it a longer" lens...

Could this be possible?

Thanks again!