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Thread: Checklist for first attempt at developing sheet film (SP-445)

  1. #11

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    Re: Checklist for first attempt at developing sheet film (SP-445)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    There certainly is an effect, the longer the film is wet the larger the grain!
    Can't say I ever noticed grain in my 8x10 negs.

  2. #12
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Checklist for first attempt at developing sheet film (SP-445)

    I have not heard that one before. I will pay attention as I do pre-soak, but not longer than 2 minutes.

  3. #13

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    Re: Checklist for first attempt at developing sheet film (SP-445)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    There certainly is an effect, the longer the film is wet the larger the grain!
    I have seen technical documents that state the duration in the developer has an impact on grain size and it is well known that time, temperature, and agitation all have an effect. Developer chosen has an impact. Exposure has an impact in that longer times expose more grains than shorter times, since the grains not exposed get washed away during processing. Grain size is larger in High ISO films compared to low ISO Film, and certain films have smaller grain particles (TMax, Delta).

    But a presoak merely swells the gelatin and allows better absorption of the chemistry and more even distribution (especially for high speed rotational agitation on smaller formats with perforations). I can not find any of my books nor technical articles on the web, that presoaking at the normal developer temperature has any effect on grain size.
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  4. #14

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    Re: Checklist for first attempt at developing sheet film (SP-445)

    Quote Originally Posted by esearing View Post
    I have seen technical documents that state the duration in the developer has an impact on grain size and it is well known that time, temperature, and agitation all have an effect. Developer chosen has an impact. Exposure has an impact in that longer times expose more grains than shorter times, since the grains not exposed get washed away during processing. Grain size is larger in High ISO films compared to low ISO Film, and certain films have smaller grain particles (TMax, Delta).

    But a presoak merely swells the gelatin and allows better absorption of the chemistry and more even distribution (especially for high speed rotational agitation on smaller formats with perforations). I can not find any of my books nor technical articles on the web, that presoaking at the normal developer temperature has any effect on grain size.
    The longer the wet time the larger the grain.

  5. #15

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    Re: Checklist for first attempt at developing sheet film (SP-445)

    Quote Originally Posted by esearing View Post
    But a presoak merely swells the gelatin and allows better absorption of the chemistry and more even distribution (especially for high speed rotational agitation on smaller formats with perforations). I can not find any of my books nor technical articles on the web, that presoaking at the normal developer temperature has any effect on grain size.
    Pre-soaking could have been benefical with ancient film types that were manufactured many decades ago, and important masters recommended it.

    Modern films from main manufacturers do not need pre-soaking. Presoaking can be harmful because it removes surfactants from the emulsion that are included to ensure an even development, in particular HP5 datasheet says: "A pre-rinse is not recommended as it can lead to uneven processing". (page 3: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/f...3/product/693/)

    Anyway a pre-soaking would not be harmful if it's long enough, a short pre-soaking may lead to problems.

  6. #16
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Checklist for first attempt at developing sheet film (SP-445)

    What about films like Tmax or Acros? And color neg/slide films? How would pre-wash work on them? I do it, and have not noticed any damage to film so to speak.

  7. #17

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    Re: Checklist for first attempt at developing sheet film (SP-445)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Ruttenberg View Post
    What about films like Tmax or Acros? And color neg/slide films? How would pre-wash work on them? I do it, and have not noticed any damage to film so to speak.
    I guess that Pre-wash won't damage any commercial film, many people use pre-wash without problems. Single rule is not making the pre-wash too short.

    Even Kodak says "Prewetting sheet film may improve tray process uniformity" in the tmx datasheet. They say "may", and they are right because if using shuffle method then Pre-wash is necessary, even with ilford film.

    My view is that in the other side Pre-wash has no benefit (with the shuffle exception) and, I reiterate, it can lead to uneven develpment if made too short.


    There is a film, Vision 3 for cinematography, that is industrially processed with a "Pre-wash", that bath contains chem to remove the remjet protective layer, Cinestill film is Vision 3 with remjet removed so it does not require that step.

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