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Thread: Jobo 2509n issue: rotates freely on center spindle

  1. #11
    Huub
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    Netherlands
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    213

    Re: Jobo 2509n issue: rotates freely on center spindle

    Had the same issue with some of my reels. Fixed it with a layer of thin paper tape on the spindle and then carefully sliding the reel over it again. It stopped the reel from rotating around the spindle and doesn't do any damage to the reel plus spindle.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Re: Jobo 2509n issue: rotates freely on center spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles S View Post
    Thx. It’s the right core. It came w the 2550 tank which can hold 2 2509 spools.
    Apologies, i assumed it was a 2520 or 2521 tank.

    Depending on the gap tolerance between the core and the reel, what bout using small stick-on rubber bump-stops, like the things that stop modern kitchen drawers from banging....you get various thicknesses.....or use the glue gun to make a small ridge on the core (or reel) that would be enough to allow the core to be removed, but tight enough to stop the reel moving on the core?

    Mike

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    Anglesey, North Wales, UK [53.3N 4.4W]
    Posts
    484

    Re: Jobo 2509n issue: rotates freely on center spindle

    I've got a 2521 tanks that holds one 2509(n) reel. Out of the tank the reel spins [freely albeit stiffly] on the central tube. But once inserted into the tank, rotation of the reel takes considerable force. So it is friction between the reel and the bottom of the tank that hinders rotation.
    I always use the recommended 270ml of fluid, and have never experienced a case as you have described. Yes, I've had problems inserting the sheet film in the reel and as a consequence have had two sheets sticking to one another but this does not seem to stop the development of both sheets.
    regards
    Tony

  4. #14
    Charles S
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
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    106

    Re: Jobo 2509n issue: rotates freely on center spindle

    So, the plot thickens.

    I "fixed" the spiral on the spindle with rubber bands to see if is would make a difference. I shot and developed 5 sheets, all with the same exposure /settings etc.
    The same thing happened. e.g. the sheets closest to the spindle developed correctly, the other ones were completely black, even without any markings of the filmholder / grafmatic.

    1) It is not the rotation of the spool on the spindle because the outcome is the same -This was the starting point of this thread which is now disproven
    2) It is not a light leak in the camera - otherwise the sheets that developed correctly wouldn't have been properly exposed
    3) it is not an issue with the film holder(s) - for the different rounds that I shot and developed I used different film holders (regular and a grafmatic that i used shortly before without issues), and the sheets that turned out black show no outline of the filmholder
    4) it is not a light leak in the dark room issue since I loaded 8x10 and 120 film in the same darkroom sitting in the same position last week
    5) it is not an issue with the film, since the film in the last attempt was a different type (and therefore from a different box)
    6) It is not a light leak in the tank, I have developed 120 film on spools in the same tank a week ago, without issues.

    Somebody suggested to develop a batch of unexposed film, which I will do to confirm that it is not due to an exposure / light leak / film holder / camera light leak / film fabrication issue

    Otherwise, i am stumped. any other suggestions ?


    Rubber band "fixing" the spindle. It can move a little bit. Since the results are the same with and without the rubber band the movement on the spindle is apparently not the issue
    Click image for larger version. 

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    What the reel looks like after fixing/rinsing - consistent with the last two times
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The sheets on the outside of the spool - notice how there are no markings of the filmholder - consistent with the last two times
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sheets closest to the spindle (it's a cat pic, like all the others were supposed to be)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And if you are interested, a saved image from the first and second batch i tried to develop is posted on the portrait thread: https://www.largeformatphotography.i...2019-Portraits

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
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    508

    Re: Jobo 2509n issue: rotates freely on center spindle

    The film is being fogged, either before loading into the film holders, or after the film came out of the holders. The sheet nearest the core is OK. Is the funnel properly located inside the tank lid? That's the only way I can think of light getting into the loaded tank and affecting the outer sheets only.

  6. #16
    Charles S
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    Jan 2017
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    Zurich, Switzerland
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    Re: Jobo 2509n issue: rotates freely on center spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Patterson View Post
    The film is being fogged, either before loading into the film holders, or after the film came out of the holders. The sheet nearest the core is OK. Is the funnel properly located inside the tank lid? That's the only way I can think of light getting into the loaded tank and affecting the outer sheets only.
    Thanks Graham, I can't fully exclude it, but it is a new tank with a new spool. And it is sort of hard to miss how to put the lid on the tank so that the funnel aligns with the spindle. It is the same spindle / tank combination that I successfully use with the 120/35mm reels. I suppose developing unexposed sheets will shed some light on it. So that's what I'll do as soon as I post this.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #17
    Charles S
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    Jan 2017
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    Zurich, Switzerland
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    Re: Jobo 2509n issue: rotates freely on center spindle

    So... I did the development cycle with unexposed film from a third box. And it developed as it should e.g. fully transparent.
    That at least eliminates the development process.
    I'll buy a box of fresh film this week and do a test shoot with that film to see if the issues repeats itself or maybe there is something wrong with the film I was using (which would be odd since it is 6 months old).


    Thank you all for your knowledge patience and advise. Much appreciated and I hope I will be able to return the favor some time. If you pass through Zurich hit me up and I'll buy you a beer.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    The Highlands of Scotland
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    344

    Re: Jobo 2509n issue: rotates freely on center spindle

    Maybe i'm missing something, but surely using the rubber bands to hold the reel and core together would cause problems in the tank?

    In my 2520/21 tanks, there is a raised central spigot on the inside bottom of the tank to keep the core centred.

    Using the rubber band would stop the core sitting right down to the bottom of the tank. Could the tank lid be opening under the pressure of the rubber bands pushing up against the lid or the lid not closing properly because of the rubber band thickness?

    Mike

  9. #19
    Charles S
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
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    106

    Re: Jobo 2509n issue: rotates freely on center spindle

    Hi Mike,
    Don't know about the 2520, in the 2550 it works. You are right that there is a small force pushing the spindle upwards against the lid, but it did not come off or leak when I used it that way.
    In any event, it seems that the issue isn't the movement of the spiral on the spindle.

  10. #20
    Charles S
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    106

    Re: Jobo 2509n issue: rotates freely on center spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Patterson View Post
    The film is being fogged, either before loading into the film holders, or after the film came out of the holders. The sheet nearest the core is OK. Is the funnel properly located inside the tank lid? That's the only way I can think of light getting into the loaded tank and affecting the outer sheets only.
    So....
    Got a fresh box of film. Did some test shots, developed with the same method (with the rubber band) and same chems as before, and all sheets came out fine.


    My conclusion is that it must have been the film. One box traveled with me from the US to Europe and I can't remember whether I kept it in hand luggage, so the fogging might have come from the x-rays in case I put it in check-in. The other 2(!) boxes that I used film from - I have no idea why this happened.

    Thanks again for your patience and advise.

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